Healing Through Nature: The Story of the Reveille & Retreat Project -17

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Kim [: 00:00:03

Welcome to Rivers of Resilience, where military women from all branches come together for an unforgettable river rafting retreat. Picture this, the rush of the rapids, the power of the current, and a team of strong determined women working in perfect sync.

Dakota [: 00:00:20

This isn't just an adventure. It's a mission to break down barriers, build unshakable trust, and forge a bulletproof support system for life on and off the water. Whether you're seeking camaraderie, inner strength, or a chance to reconnect, this retreat is where sisterhood is born and lifelong bonds are made. Let's dive in.

Kim [: 00:00:43

Welcome to Dog Tag Diaries, where military women share true stories. We are your hosts, Captain Kim.

Dakota [: 00:00:50

And Captain Dakota. The stories you are about to hear are powerful. We appreciate that you have joined us and are eager to learn more about these experiences and connect with the military women who are willing to share their stories in order to foster community and understanding.

Kim [: 00:01:08

Military women are providing valuable insight into their experiences, struggles, and triumphs. By speaking their truth, they contribute to a deeper understanding of the challenges they face and the resilience they demonstrate.

Dakota [: 00:01:22

We appreciate your decision to join us today to gain insights and knowledge from the experiences of these courageous military women. Thank you for being here. In this episode, we dive into the powerful experience of the Rivers of Resilience River Rafting Retreat, designed exclusively for military women. This isn't your typical outdoor adventure. It's a transformational journey where service women join forces to conquer both the rapids and the unique challenges they face in military and civilian life.

Kim [: 00:02:01

We explore how this retreat breaks down barriers, fosters deep camaraderie, and builds an unshakable support team. So we actually are doing our podcast a little differently this time. Reveille and Retreat Project just got back from being on their first all women river rafting retreat. And 2 women that were on the retreat with us are here to talk about the experience. So we have Carol Crisp and Heather Murphy. And so, Carol, do you wanna tell us a little bit about you?

Carol Crisp [: 00:02:36

I was an army brat, and my father enforced the good old boy army traits in me and then encouraged me to join the air force because I would have a better experience. I joined in 2,000 and was at Andrews Air Force Base as an ER trauma nurse before it became Joint Base Andrews, and then 911 hits and got to experience the fun times that the nation experienced during that time. And then I was in Travis and Wright Patt, so the big bomber squadrons, and I supported the crew chiefs and the maintainers as a nurse practitioner. I went to UHUs to become a nurse practitioner. And then I was in Germany with the Jets or Sabers, and then, Mountain Home in Afghanistan, in Kabul, and down in Leatherneck in the Southwest Helmand Province. And I definitely experienced even though I was medical, I definitely experienced what the good old boy nature versus nurture was. And so I'm always excited to be with my fellow women, my fellow soldiers and airmen and comrades that are female. And so when this retreat came up, I was super excited and I was like ready to jump in and and do it.

Carol Crisp [: 00:03:59

And it was worth it. It was really fun.

Kim [: 00:04:02

You stated the nature versus nurture. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Carol Crisp [: 00:04:08

When I think of the military and as we walk down the street, when I got back and when I retired out of the air force, I can wear a veteran female hat and I can wear my legion vest and people will thank my husband for their service because it's the nature of the military to be male and the nature of the military because they are the ones that combat that go to combat. Well, that's not accurate anymore. And the females are the nurturers. We are the women. So we're just there to take care of others. Well, I am a nurturer by trade. I am a medic. Right?

Kim [: 00:04:46

Yes, you are.

Carol Crisp [: 00:04:48

But I also have seen combat and I have carried weapons and I have gone to war. And so there's an imbalance to the balance that is within me that is still struggling to continue as the nurturer when the nature of the war or the men that are surrounding you come out. And so it's really hard to balance that as you go day to day or recover from being off balance.

Kim [: 00:05:20

Yeah. And that had to be so frustrating for you because you played such a predominant role, a trauma nurse.

Carol Crisp [: 00:05:27

Yeah. When I deployed, I was a nurse practitioner, but I was thrown into the mix as a mentor, a jet tasking in a navy team. And so I was all out of whack, all out of elements. So I didn't have my air force comrades with me to I learned army training, sir. And then I was put in with the navy, and so I was discombobulated left and right. And when there's 75% men around you, even in the medical team, I was the only female on my team, but then we were joined with camp well, Club Med in Kabul. There were females that were super amazing, a navy captain and a Air Force colonel that kept us under their wings and mentored us pretty well. So that was amazing having their support while we were in Afghanistan.

Kim [: 00:06:24

I'm so happy you were able to at least find that support over there. And we're gonna talk about how that kind of came over or that feeling was initiated again once you got around all women on the retreat, but let's bring Heather Murphy in. And Heather, do you wanna tell us a little bit about you?

Heather Murphy [: 00:06:45

Hi. I'm Heather. First off, thank you Kim and Dakota for, a, hosting this podcast. I think it's filling a very necessary role to just create community around veterans, women veterans, and, b, for having me do this. I'm very excited. So I was in the marine corps for 5 years. I was in 2008 to 2013, and I was a Huey crew chief. When I joined, there was very few women doing that job, and I was the first woman to be a crew chief at my squadron.

Heather Murphy [: 00:07:16

And it was not a warm welcome. Between day crew and night crew, there's about 75 to 80 men. There was one female mechanic, and there was me. And every day, it was a battle, an uphill battle to try and prove that I belonged. And every day, I would get told in a variety of different ways that I would never be good enough, that I would never belong, that no matter what I did, I would not be welcome there. And it was just, over the course of many years, defeatings just to be denied something because of the body that I occupied. And at the time, I've truly believed I could work hard enough, that I can be good enough at my job to prove to them that I should be there. And it never happened.

Heather Murphy [: 00:08:07

And it took me a lot of years to understand, like, how devastating that was to my life. But in the time, it was just I don't know. You get so wrapped up in this mindset that I will prove to them that I belong here. So that was hard. I deployed once. I was on the 22nd MEU, the marine expeditionary unit. So we were on a naval ship and floating around and that was a long time. We were off about 10 and a half months, really happy to make it back home.

Heather Murphy [: 00:08:42

And then I got out. So, yeah, 5 years. It was a really tumultuous experience. I have been out of the marines for about 11 and a half years. And for about 10 of those years, I had no connection to any sort of veteran community. I hadn't talked to anyone I served with since 2017. I just fell off the face of the earth and stay that way. So I actually started going to this veteran lunch crew in my town, which is how I found out about reveille and retreat.

Heather Murphy [: 00:09:22

And when I saw this rafting trip, I was like, oh, going out with a bunch of lady veterans for multiple days. This could be terrible, and this could be awesome. So I decided to sign up even though I was very apprehensive to do so. And I showed up and had this, like, legitimately life changing experience that was so wonderful. And I didn't even know how much he needed it until it was done, so that was incredible. The ability to go out in nature without any cell service, without any external distractions and just be on this beautiful river with these incredible, powerful, badass women. And to just become, like, legitimate sisters with them was so amazing. I found a place to belong.

Heather Murphy [: 00:10:21

It's like, wow. I didn't have to prove myself. I didn't have to show anyone that I belonged. I was just accepted, and that was pretty incredible. Having a safe space to just be amongst these women that we have shared so many experiences across our different branches of service, different eras of service, and yet our stories are depressingly similar or incredibly similar depending on how you wanna look at it. And just being able to share stories to get real and vulnerable and talk about hard things was just something that I never thought that I would be capable of, which is strange to think about. So it was really great to just be in this place that it was the safe to talk about these hurts and realize that I'm not alone. I'm not the only one that feels this way, that carries these things, and that I don't have to be alone again.

Heather Murphy [: 00:11:25

It's just the connections I made there, the support system that I built is powerful. I feel like when I am going through something hard, I have this network of women that I can reach out to, and I know that they'll be there for me.

Kim [: 00:11:43

So one of the big reasons Reveille and Retreat Project was born was because of that underservice that we felt when women were in the military and when they got out of the military, there was an under service and we weren't recognized just like much like you were talking about. You were saying how you would wear all your gear on people would think your husband was in. And we thought it was so important with all the challenges that the military women face were unique during and after, and many which leave like huge emotional scars. And so, well, first of all, how did you hear about it and why did you decide that this might be something you're looking for?

Carol Crisp [: 00:12:27

Let's call it a come to Jesus moment where before I retired out of the military, I had to realize that I had been holding a lot inside of me that was not beneficial to my well-being, we'll say. And so I went on a journey searching for inner peace, and I discovered that I had been numbing for a very long time and running some rails. So I was not suicidal, but if I died, I didn't care pretty much. So I finally found a program called Sable Warrior, went to that. And so there's a lot of fellow Sable Warrior members in Idaho and where I retired in Oregon. And one of the members, Toby Key well, Toby, I call him Toby Keith, but Toby Wright. So he sent this rafting retreat to my husband, and I was like, hell, yeah. Can I say that?

Kim [: 00:13:34

Yes. Yes. You can. Express yourself.

Carol Crisp [: 00:13:37

Anything to get out in nature and nature to me is healing. So hiking and exploring the river and anything outdoors, my soul heals. And so I was like, yeah, I'll do it. And even though I don't know anybody on this trip, I don't know anything about them. If it's female warriors, I'm in because they're my cup of tea. That's my brand right there. So I, jumped in with both feet, and I'm glad I did.

Dakota [: 00:14:08

Have you ever been to an all female retreat before?

Carol Crisp [: 00:14:12

No. I have never been to an all female retreat, and so this was unexpected. But I same warrior was all females, and that was a weekend of healing in Ohio. But other than that, this was, like, getting to learn each other and the body work by Assata and just jumping in the water and meditations and flipping boats and throwing ropes. And it was just a blast. I enjoyed it. It was good good times.

Heather Murphy [: 00:14:46

I had been rafting as a kid a couple times, but for the most part, the whole rafting thing was new to me, and I was very excited about it. I am very much an outdoor enthusiast. So that part was always the lure, and then the whole talking with lady veterans about vulnerable things was not appealing. But I decided to challenge myself to do this. So the first night was pretty stressful for me. I had a lot of anxiety. Just, oh, crowd of strangers. Okay.

Heather Murphy [: 00:15:22

This is gonna be something. But then that first day we got on the water, I definitely was like, okay. This is I'm in my element. I can do this. Then I got on the raft with Emmett the dog the first day because I was still kind of freaking out. And I was like, oh, this dog this dog will get me. We'll be chill together. And, of course, that was a good choice because Emmett was such a chill dog.

Heather Murphy [: 00:15:45

And I was out with Michelle, another marine, and then our awesome guide, Andrew. And we just had so much fun out on the water just playing and giggling and talking, and it was very enjoyable. So that was definitely a good choice for the first raft of the day. And then that first night in camp definitely got real. Kevin told his story. Lauren told her story. And just the, oh, endless amount of like, oh, yeah. That happened to me too.

Heather Murphy [: 00:16:19

Me too. Oh, yeah. That's true for me too. And it just, like, got to the point where it's a little weird. Just like, oh, wow. These stories aren't as unique as I thought, which was devastating, but also illuminating. Like, okay. We're all in this together.

Heather Murphy [: 00:16:39

So that definitely gave me the ability to kind of unlock a little bit and throughout the course of the week, just talk about things more than I've talked about in the past, oh, you know, 11 years, which that's a lot of years to just exist in silence. So, wow, feeling pretty good about that whole talking about it thing. So it was great.

Kim [: 00:17:07

Well, what was your initial I know you said this was your try, but, like, your initial feeling when you first arrived.

Carol Crisp [: 00:17:16

When I brought my c bag and full of everything that I was, expecting to experience, and they were like, no. No. No. We have dry bags for you. Put everything in that bag into these dry bags, and then we had to kind of down downsize. I was a little nervous because I had never been, like I said, on a week long trip with just women. I've been to, you know, Ranger Week, in college and, like, different things. And, but this was, okay, what am I supposed to expect? I don't know what I'm supposed to expect.

Carol Crisp [: 00:17:55

What do I take? What don't I take? So I had to put a little bit of trust in the guides and, you too. And I think you all made it very easy to do that, by just your personality and your graciousness and your guidance.

Kim [: 00:18:16

Oh, thank you, Carol.

Dakota [: 00:18:18

Yeah.

Kim [: 00:18:19

That feedback is always beautiful to hear.

Carol Crisp [: 00:18:21

So thank you. Yeah.

Heather Murphy [: 00:18:23

Of course.

Kim [: 00:18:25

Yeah. And with this retreat, let's Dakota. Let's talk a little bit about Warrior Impact. We did a collaboration with another nonprofit which, does recreational rafting trips for veterans and first responders. And so this is our first time collaborating with them and it was a really beautiful collaboration.

Carol Crisp [: 00:18:49

Yeah. You couldn't tell at all. You guys did really well and, coming together to provide this for all of us.

Dakota [: 00:18:57

Thank you. Mhmm. So have you talked about what your favorite part of the trip?

Carol Crisp [: 00:19:02

What my favorite part of the trip was?

Dakota [: 00:19:04

Yeah. Sorry. I had this, myy daughter hand off me.

Carol Crisp [: 00:19:11

That's okay, Np. I don't know. There were so many parts that I liked. I loved getting to learn about my comrades. Like, well, all of them are beautiful inside and out. I loved jumping in the water without any, reservation.

Kim [: 00:19:31

And by the way, Carol was the one on the paco pad when all the rafts were going down the river. Carol was like, I'm gonna take a pocko pad and float on that down the river and do and she inspired Dakota and I to do the same.

Carol Crisp [: 00:19:47

That was great. Yeah. Of course. Those rocks came and I was like, oh, but it was good. It was good.

Heather Murphy [: 00:19:56

I am so thankful that I got to experience this event with these incredible people. The women that were out there on the trip and then the Warrior Impact rafting team, They were such a delightful, playful, kind, wonderful group of humans, and they totally were paramount to the success of this trip. It was so fun getting to know them and getting on different rafts every day and just getting to row their rafts. I very much enjoyed that. Yes. Very much to the extent that I am now on a mission to become a raft guide for them. So I'm actually gonna go rafting next week with one of the guides. He's gonna let me pilot my own craft.

Heather Murphy [: 00:20:48

And then in April, I have the the dates already on my calendar to go to this raft guide school to get set up so that next Labor Day trip, I will be a guide for Warrior Impact. That is my goal, and I am very serious about making that happen. So I would love to go on this trip again as one of the guides and hopefully be partnered with Revelry and Retreat and get to see some familiar faces and meet a new group of just powerful badass women that are out there to have fun and get a little vulnerable and heal. I mean, is there a better mission? I don't think so. So, yeah, this has been pretty great. I have a very different direction that my life is going to be taking me. So I'm just gonna go along for the ride, you know, the river of life. So I'm just gonna let the current take me, and I don't know what's around the next bend, but I'm down to find out.

Heather Murphy [: 00:22:00

Okay. That's enough river puns analogies.

Kim [: 00:22:03

Do you feel like you were able to build trust right away just from, like, your past experiences of being in the military?

Carol Crisp [: 00:22:11

I do. I do think we all went through so much as female veterans or even I think a couple are still in the military, but they're you know, so you just build that. It's so nice to just have women around you that have experienced similar things that you have, that that bond is already there. And you just have to bridge it a little bit by doing the same things with each other and learning about the differences and appreciating the differences and being gracious to each other because we've all been through hell and back. Right?

Kim [: 00:22:50

Yeah.

Carol Crisp [: 00:22:50

Yeah. There's a reason there's only a few females in the military. Even still, we're still less than, what, 25% female, and that's across the board. And even less in the leadership positions who protect those below them. So that's unfortunate.

Kim [: 00:23:08

Well, right. So the retreat's so important because I mean, I know when even Dakota and I started this, we didn't realize how much of an impact that was even gonna have for ourselves. And so like every time we do these, like, it's just so magical because this time we had all the elements, right? We had the outdoors, we had all the healing elements, outdoors, water, human connection, movement, bodywork. And it was just so beautiful to see women drop into their feminine energy. Did you notice that Carol?

Carol Crisp [: 00:23:48

I did. It was beautiful.

Kim [: 00:23:50

Can you talk about it a little?

Carol Crisp [: 00:23:53

Like you said, like, we weren't competing for anything. In the military, we're constantly pitted against each other because there's so few of us that we have to keep up with the men or there's so few of us that we are trying to get those spots that are, you know, only one woman can be there or only and I was medical. So, I mean, there's plenty of women in the medical profession. But when I was deployed, I was all by myself. And so I didn't have to keep up with anyone here at this retreat. I didn't have to prove myself I was who I was and I was appreciated, I think, for me being myself. And everyone was just so gracious. Even though, like, our guides were mostly men, they were amazing, and they were very respectful.

Carol Crisp [: 00:24:46

They stayed away when we were having our female time or our, story time and meditation, and I didn't feel like they were out to get us or attack us or anything. So it was a safe space. The it was like a container, like a safe we were in nature, so we were all safe and we were there together as a unit, a female unit.

Kim [: 00:25:14

And you were talking about the storytelling circle. And I know that that was a very intimate time and we're not gonna share details on what other women shared because they were very personal. But do you wanna talk about how important you felt like that was and the impact that it had on other women to open up, to be feel safe to open up?

Carol Crisp [: 00:25:36

When your wounds are open and raw, it is really hard to tear down walls. But when we were together, there were so many sisters that were willing to share their pains and their experiences and the reasons they had walls up. And that doesn't come easy. Like, that is no small feat. So I commend each and every one of those women for sharing their story. And it meant a lot to me because that just makes you closer to your sisters, hearing what they've been through and their experiences because it's a raw moment. And that's part of the reason I numbed, and I was, like, running my rails and doing my what I needed to do to survive because that's what you do. You just try and survive That moment of weakness, you don't share, you know, until anybody.

Carol Crisp [: 00:26:32

And they were willing to open up and share during this time. And so that was that was amazing for each and every one of them.

Dakota [: 00:26:41

Yeah. And I feel like you were a big part of that because you were willing to share your story. And I think a lot of women saw that and knew it was okay and that they weren't alone in their own story. And so they also were able to share and felt comfortable enough to do that because we held that space for them. Right.

Kim [: 00:27:03

Yeah. So thank you for being so brave. You're right, Dakota. She was one of the first to share her story. So thank you for being so brave to do that because I'm sure, like everyone. Right? You want like, you're like, oh, I want this trauma out. I want to, but until someone else does it, you kind of feel like alone. You're like, am I alone? And so you were able to be brave and do that.

Kim [: 00:27:28

So thank you. So what would you tell other women if they're hesitant to go on retreats? Why this was just so transparent. And let's talk about how we're staying in touch afterwards.

Carol Crisp [: 00:27:41

One of us is a singer and we got to, like, some of us got to watch her live or, like, right after work, we were online trying to watch her in Bend, and then one is actually down in well, can I say Central America? Or Yeah. Yeah. Down south, and she's sharing all of her beautiful pictures and her amazing because she's leaning into moving and going all kinds of crazy places. I wish I was there. One day one day I'll be there. And then, like, we've got a little group of sharing our songs and daily meditations or thoughts or things to focus on. And so definitely keeping in touch with my sisters is helping me to stay present and mindful of that there is a support out there for each and every one of us, which I love. And hopefully, we'll do another event together.

Kim [: 00:28:44

So we're just gonna end with that question. What would you tell other women if they're hesitant to go on retreats?

Carol Crisp [: 00:28:53

I would say don't be hesitant. I would say lean in, jump in with both feet and make the most of every moment and enjoy the camaraderie and the nonjudgment open space that you will get when you get there. That's it.

Kim [: 00:29:12

Carol, thank you so much because I like Dakota said, we know you're in pain. So thank you for coming on. You sounded great.

Carol Crisp [: 00:29:19

Oh, okay. Great. You too, ladies, enjoy.

Dakota [: 00:29:24

Okay. Thank you.

Carol Crisp [: 00:29:26

Okay. Bye.

Kim [: 00:29:31

Thank you for tuning into Dog Tag Diaries. We appreciate your willingness to listen and engage with these stories as we understand the challenge that comes with sharing and hearing them. Your support in witnessing the experience of our military women is invaluable. These stories are meant to inspire and provide meaning, and we hope they can help you find your own voice as

Dakota [: 00:29:54

well. If you or anyone you know are in need of immediate help, call the crisis line by dialing 988, then press 1. There are resources available to help and provide guidance during difficult times. Please visit our website, www.reveilleandretreatproject.org, to learn more about the Reveille and Retreat Project, including upcoming retreats for military women and resources. The link is in the show notes. We'll be here again next Wednesday. Keep finding the hope, the healing, and the power in community.