Military Roots to Space Dreams: Sharon McDougle’s Remarkable Career -29

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Captain Kim [: 00:00:03

What does it take to break barriers, make history, and inspire generations? From suiting up elite pilots and astronauts to becoming a trailblazing entrepreneur, Sharon Caples McDougle's journey is one of resilience, courage, and groundbreaking achievements. Get ready to hear the story of a modern day hidden figure who went from the air force to NASA and now empowers others through her business suit up with Shea. This is an episode you won't wanna miss. Welcome to dog tag diaries where military women share true stories. We are your hosts, Captain Kim

Captain Dakota [: 00:00:45

And Captain Dakota. The stories you are about to hear are powerful. We appreciate that you have joined us and are eager to learn more about these experiences and connect with the military women who are willing to share their stories in order to foster community and understanding.

Kim [: 00:01:01

Military women are providing valuable insight into their experiences, struggles, and triumphs. By speaking their truth, they contribute to a deeper understanding of the challenges they face and the resilience they demonstrate.

Captain Dakota [: 00:01:17

We appreciate your decision to join us today to gain insights and knowledge from the experiences of these courageous military women. Thank you for being here.

Captain Kim [: 00:01:33

Today, we're thrilled to welcome an extraordinary guest, Sharon Caples McDougle, a modern day hidden figure whose remarkable story is an inspiration to us all. Sharon is a retired air force veteran and former NASA space suit technician who made history as the 1st African American technician and crew chief in the Space Shuttle crew escape equipment department. She suited up astronauts, including Dr. Mae Jemison, the first African American woman in space, and led the only all female suit tech crew. Now Sharon continues to inspire others as an author, speaker, and entrepreneur through her company suit up with Shay. From her beginnings in the military to her groundbreaking work at NASA and beyond, Sharon's journey is nothing short of incredible. Let's dive into her story. Welcome, Sharon. Thank you so much for being on dog tag diaries.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:02:35

How could I not be? I'm a dog dog tag girl myself.

Captain Kim [: 00:02:40

I love that. And you are such an accomplished woman. Oh my gosh. You were on Good Morning America. You have all these accolades, and you still continue to give through your volunteering?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:02:56

Yes. Definitely have to. And I'm one of the, quotes I saw that resonated with me is volunteering is, you know, part of paying your rent for being here on this earth. Yes. You know, getting back.

Captain Kim [: 00:03:08

Yeah. Isn't that true? Because that's what we're all here for.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:03:11

Yes. You need to care about others. I mean, because I can be you in a blink of an eye.

Captain Dakota [: 00:03:16

You know, me.

Captain Kim [: 00:03:16

And I love your volunteer list. You read. You read to children. You mentor. You clean community gardens. You work in food pantries. Feed the homeless, you work in thrift shops, and that's just to name like a few of them.

Captain Kim [: 00:03:31

Okay. So we're gonna get into all your accolades, but we always start by learning, like, who you were as a little girl.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:03:40

I was a happy little girl. Very loved school a lot, so that was one of my places of joy. But the most joy I got was being with my mother, who I thought and I'm number 9 of 12 children.

Captain Kim [: 00:03:54

Oh my gosh.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:03:57

Yes. I don't know how they did it. They both worked. Like, they just walked by each other and pregnant. Oh, and that is I think that's how we

Captain Kim [: 00:04:04

thought it worked when we were younger. Now wait. So where did you grow up? What state?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:04:12

In Moss Point. I'm from Moss Point, Mississippi, born and bred. Small town on the Gulf Coast. You know, if you drive through, blink, you might miss it.

Captain Dakota [: 00:04:21

Oh my.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:04:21

It's right between, New Orleans and Mobile to kinda give you a

Captain Kim [: 00:04:25

Okay.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:04:25

Kinda know where it is. Yeah. So I grew up there. My father passed away when I was 4 years old, so I didn't really get to know him. Gosh. Yeah. It it yeah. I know.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:04:34

I know, girl. And then, you know, like I said, I didn't even know him to miss him because I was a little kid. I didn't even know, you know. But then my mother, the rest, she gave me life and she saved my life. I tell you, I was sold a summer right after leaving 2nd grade. And it was like any other day, she went to get the car keys, get in the car, and that was my cue to get to go jump in the car and go with her, you know, even though it was a bunch of us, I always went to the store with her and stuff. And so I got in the front seat with her, had my cracker jacks ready to go, and she paused. And she looked at me and she's like, you stay here this time, baby.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:05:09

She knew something was gonna happen. She knew. That's why I said she gave me life and she saved my life. Because if I would have been in the car with her, I wouldn't be here talking to you right now. My mother was killed a few blocks from our home. She almost made it back home. And I was supposed to be in the car with her, girl. And so she knew deep down in her bones that something was gonna happen because she never told me to get out the car and stay here, you know, never.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:05:33

So I had no clue that she was gone. You know, remember I was I was 8, and it was a bunch of us. The older kids, when it happened, they ran down to the scene and stuff because it was right down the street from our house. But nobody thought about sitting down the little ones, you know, doesn't like me and my other 2 little sisters and saying, mommy's going to heaven, mommy got killed or nothing. So we didn't know I didn't know where she was. I thought it was a party going on because all these people started bringing food to our house. There's a lot of people at our house, but I didn't know, you know, where's mom? I didn't know she was dead, you know, until the day of the funeral. Yes, it was horrible.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:06:09

So I had to make it through that. And it was very difficult. You know, the families had to we had to split up and go live with older brothers and sisters. And I kind of became like a mute. I wouldn't talk or anything. Once I found out that she was gone and I'm walking into the funeral home and seeing that long box in the front of the room, I had never been to a funeral. And I kinda tiptoe. I could kinda see.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:06:30

And I'm like, she kinda looked like my mom, but I wasn't sure. And then the more I looked, I'm like, that's that it. And, you know, in the room, it was somber. You know, everybody was kinda and, you know, you yeah. You feel it even though you don't really know what's going on. And when I saw that was my mom, girl, I covered my face and cried the whole time. And like I said, I didn't talk. It was probably for weeks.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:06:47

And it because I just didn't I couldn't comprehend. I couldn't comprehend, you know, why why my mom got killed or what happened. I still didn't know exactly what happened. I didn't I didn't know it was a car wreck. You know, I didn't know no details.

Captain Kim [: 00:06:58

Yeah. And no one sat down to tell you or talk to you about it.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:07:02

No. And I'm sure they were all freaked out because it's their mom too. You know? So they're not thinking about me to sit the little kids down and tell them what happened. And I and can understand that, but finding out the way I did, it kinda messed me up, you know, to walk in there. And for me, I haven't ever been to it anymore. But, anyway, I made it I made it through, of course.

Captain Kim [: 00:07:19

So, Sharon, like, you lost your dad at 4 and then your mom at 8, and then, the whole family system just fell apart. Who did you go to live with?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:07:30

I lived with my oldest sister. Now she was already married with her kids, and they she had 5 kids already, and they were all younger than me. So I had to grow up overnight. I've never done anything because I had all these older brothers and sisters. So all of a sudden, I got I was that was my first boot camp, not the air force.

Captain Kim [: 00:07:47

Yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:07:47

He put me through boot camp, showed me how to wash, clean, cook, do everything, And it be I became like the woman of the house overnight. Currently, it was crazy. I cried so much.

Captain Kim [: 00:07:57

You went into, like, survival mode.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:08:00

Yes. And a lot of people didn't know because I always chose to be happy and, you know, put on that mask and smile, and not knowing that I can't stay up to school for any extracurricular activities, I got to go home. I felt like a slave. I did. I'm going to be honest. I felt like a slave. I had to go home and do all the chores, call everybody there, clean, cook, do all this stuff that I've never had to do because, like I said, I was 8. Yeah.

Captain Kim [: 00:08:22

And then you didn't even process

Sharon McDougle [: 00:08:24

Yeah.

Captain Kim [: 00:08:24

I still get that. Of your dad, the death of your mom.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:08:27

Hadn't even because I that was too little. And, you know, that's when we were really 8 year olds. Now they're a little groaner. They they're more yeah. But we you're old.

Captain Kim [: 00:08:36

It's encouraged to talk about things now. Back then, no.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:08:40

Yeah. You're a kid to a kid. You're out of sight, out of mind. You know? No talk to grown ups. But Yeah. I made it through. Thankful I'm thankful for my sister for letting me live with her, but it wasn't ideal. You know, I wasn't getting treated like a little kid anymore.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:08:55

I was treated like a an adult. I wasn't getting cuddled and acting like a child. I'm like a grown up now.

Captain Kim [: 00:09:00

And where did your other 2 sisters go then, the younger ones?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:09:04

The the 2 younger than me? My little sister that was right below me, 3 years younger than me, she stayed there until, like, the 7th grade, and then she went to Portland. I have, siblings in Portland, Oregon that were already gone and grown and gone. And so she went and lived with my next to the oldest sister. And then the baby one that was beneath her was 4. So I think they were a year apart. They both ended up living with my sister in Portland. And I was the only one that was still in Moss Point. And the brothers went to live with my oldest brother, and, you know, everybody just kinda split up.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:09:31

But I made it through, girl, and, big reason I did is because of, missus Jennings, my 2nd grade teacher. And I'm sure it's a small town. Everybody knew my mom had gotten killed. But she started paying extra attention to me, giving me little hugs just out the blue, making a big deal when I got good grades. I mean, little stuff that and I'm not saying nothing bad about my sister. She lost her mom, too. And she was only 20 3 or something like that. You know? So she was still young and already with her family.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:09:58

So now she's gotta take on all this responsibility of getting up to you and, you know, doing all that stuff.

Captain Kim [: 00:10:03

Yeah. Missus Jennings was regarding an angel.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:10:07

Yes. She knew. And it was even some talk. Like, she was trying to see if she could, like, adopt me because I'm sure she she's suck up. She's I mean, I was a totally different kid. I wasn't a kid raising her hand. I'm just staring out the window. There's a bump on the log, not talking, not happy or anything anymore.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:10:23

And she brought me out of that funk. Thank goodness she noticed. Because she's like, I tell you, she's a teacher. She got all these other kids she gotta take care of. And then when I got to high school, I freaked out because I'm like, I don't have money to go to college or not. You know, I don't know nothing about any of that. Missus Owens, she made me feel like I was the best thing since sliced bread, girl. Teachers, I'm saying, if, like, you know, that cliche, if you reach just one, I was definitely one of those.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:10:48

Yes. They helped me more than they'll ever know. More than they'll ever know. But she girl, she made me feel so good. I would just see her down the hall. And she don't get not even talking to me, but just seeing her, being in her presence, I would feel prouder, you know, put my shoulders back and stand a little taller. And because I knew how she felt about me, You know? Oh, I don't know. Hi.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:11:06

I was like, uh-uh. You know, because of those 2 ladies and, of course, my my sister, if she didn't put me through boot camp early, made me a leader. Oh, she made me a leader early. She did. Because I had to run a whole household pretty much by myself, even though she was there. And so it helped me be the woman.

Captain Kim [: 00:11:25

Isn't it interesting, those little blessings in disguise?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:11:28

Exactly. She helped me be the woman that I am today, even though I didn't like it at the time.

Captain Kim [: 00:11:33

Yeah. How did you get into the military then?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:11:37

My knight in shining armor, as I call him, my air force recruiter.

Captain Kim [: 00:11:42

Oh, I don't think any

Sharon McDougle [: 00:11:44

I don't think anybody the air force recruiter. My knight in shining armor, because

Captain Dakota [: 00:11:49

Oh.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:11:50

When I was stressing about what am I gonna do, I don't have money to go to school. I have been told my whole life, because your dad was in the army, you know, build social security or pay for your college. And I've been told this my whole life, So I'm thinking I got money to go. And all of a sudden, no. They don't do that. I don't know if I was told to buy or if they stopped the program or whatever it was, but I that's what I was banking on. I'm a go to school through whatever that program is. Nope.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:12:12

And so that no you know, we graduated that May. So around October, November, fall ish, the Air Force crew to come out to the high school and did his pitch. Sergeant Bud Rucker, thank you so much. I remember his sergeant Bud Rucker. He girl, he started talking, and the light bulb went off. I was like, I want to sign up right then. Right then. I was ready to go.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:12:36

And he he laughed. He said, you can't you can't do it right today. You gotta first, you gotta be 18. You gotta take the test. You know, he told me all this stuff.

Captain Kim [: 00:12:43

You're like, no, no, no. Take me.

Captain Dakota [: 00:12:45

Right now.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:12:45

And so on February 23rd, 1982, I went down and enlisted. I took that test, flying colors. I got offered an awesome job. And girl, he said he was me. Because I don't think any other branch I'm sure I probably would have survived in another branch, but this was made for me. My job chose me aerospace physiology. I had no idea what it was. But he told me, he's like I told him I wanted to go to be in California.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:13:14

You know, all little southern girls, California, who? You know, wanna go to California. I wanna travel. I wanna have a great job. And I got all 3. I got stationed in Beale Air Force Base in California with the SR 71 Blackbird and U2 program, girl. The bad mamma jamma SR 71. I don't know if you know but that plane

Captain Kim [: 00:13:34

No. Let's hear about all of it.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:13:36

Girl, that plane right there, it was more impressive than the space shuttle. I love that airplane. Yes. Yes. So that's where I started. But I had to go to my tech school. You know, we do, and you said it was army with you, Brett?

Captain Kim [: 00:13:48

Yeah. So all I know are Chinooks and Black Hawks.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:13:50

I don't yeah. So Well, you make sure you look look up there. It's not saying no one. Okay. We're a girl. So we went to BoomTown before 6 weeks, which we called it basic training. 6 weeks, and that's in San Antonio. And then after that, you go to your technical school to whatever your job is.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:14:04

Everybody's getting on airplanes, and they're calling taxis. It's taking places. And I mean, not taxis. They're we everybody's like, oh, I got my assignment. I'm going to Connecticut or I'm going to Delaware. You know? I'm like, oh, oh. And they get to me. There's, like, they call me a taxi to go right down the street, maybe 10 miles.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:14:21

I texted and I was at Brooks, Arizona based right down the street from San Antonio. I was like, I don't go to California. They're like, you gotta go to you gotta go to technical school where you're in training. And so my real AFSC, my airport specialty code, my job, it was aerospace physiology, but it was working with altitude chamber and the dive chamber. So the hypobaric and hyperbaric chamber was my actual job.

Captain Kim [: 00:14:45

Did that. Not a fan. So thank you.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:14:48

Yeah. So that was my we, being side observers, are driving it outside. So, you know

Captain Kim [: 00:14:53

As a flight nurse, yeah, I had to go through the altitude chamber in the the dunker. Not a fan.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:14:57

Yeah. That was my job. But by being stationed at Beale Air Force Base in California, I got to California. The extra duty was working with the pressure suits with the reconnaissance aircraft, those planes. They wore the pressure suits because they flew so fast and so high. That's how I got trained to step right into my career with NASA. Thank you, Air Force.

Captain Kim [: 00:15:18

You weren't even thinking that journey No. To begin with.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:15:22

That's what I tell kids. It's like, you know, did you wanna knew what you wanted? I was like, yes. I used to lie out on a grassy knoll to look up at the star. Yes. I was like, no. My dog chose me. I didn't even know what it was. And I was just gonna go home and just be my and, you know, get be successful.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:15:39

And that's what happened.

Captain Kim [: 00:15:40

Yeah. Once you entered that stage, did you just know this is it? This is for me.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:15:46

I walked in, like what what did they say? Like, I don't know how how old you are, but Mary Tyler Moore, remember how at the beginning of the show you remember the show, Mary Tyler Moore? I remember, yeah. Would you stand out in the open of it and just spin around like, that was me? Okay. I walked into the building, and it was right it was in December, so some people were on leave. So it wasn't as many folks there, but I walked in. I was just like, oh my god. You know, I just feel like this is my home. This is it. Yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:16:12

I walked down the hall. They had the

Captain Dakota [: 00:16:14

Oh gosh.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:16:14

Rooms with all of those pressure suits hanging up. I kinda went and ran my after I got permission because I didn't know if I could touch anything. Thing. Ran my hands down the shoes. I was just like, I was speechless. I was just like, oh my God. I just went in like I had been there before, you know, and just like Oh. Just walking in each room with this in awe and just so happy to finally be at my

Captain Kim [: 00:16:32

job. You know? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So take us on that journey because I wanna hear this. I'm excited. So

Sharon McDougle [: 00:16:41

how about a little 18 year old girl, never been anywhere, from Moss Point, Mississippi. Within a few months, I'm in Okinawa, Japan. We do TDYs, temporary duty assignments, for people that don't know what that means. Every 2 months, once I got trained on the suit, every 2 months, I would rotate. We had 5 detachments. So even though I was there for 7 years, I was really there three and a half years, because every 2 months, I'm gone. Girl, I can believe I was like, this is not I'm into pain. I'm into pain.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:17:11

You know, from my humble beginnings, you know, The military has saved so many small town kids like me. Hats off to the military. So my plan was to go in, let them pay for my college, because that's one of the things he said in the brief when he came out to talk to our high school class. You know, we'll pay for your education. You'll have a job. You get to travel world. All this. So my plan was go to college.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:17:32

How about I never took one class semester next semester. Never took one class. Not one. Because I had this amazing job, girl. Every day and after that, I went to okay. I find the attachments for Okinawa, Japan, Osan Air Base in Korea, Mildenhall, England, Cyprus, Greece, and then in Florida at Patrick Air Force Base. But you're rotating constantly every 2 months. You come home to California for 2 months just so you know, make sure everything's in order and, you know, to refresh on stuff.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:18:00

You back on the road.

Captain Kim [: 00:18:01

And this wasn't exhausting for you. This fed your soul.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:18:05

Oh, no. No. Oh, no. Remember I was 18? I was there, 18 to 26. I was young the whole time I was there. So, no, that was just oh, I didn't have to worry about, you know, leaving no babies or anything like that, you know, when married. So, girl, that was

Captain Dakota [: 00:18:20

it was

Sharon McDougle [: 00:18:21

like and then when you travel on TDY, you may work 3 days a week because the plane's not flying every day while you're on t on temporary duty. So it was like a vacation, girl. I'm moving there just learning all the different cultures, just living my best life.

Captain Kim [: 00:18:34

Greece, Europe,

Sharon McDougle [: 00:18:35

Japan, Korea? Greece. Greece was the main one that made Phil like Superstar because they hadn't really seen black people. Oh. Oh. And so they thought I was, like, Flo Jo. Remember Flo Jo from the Olympics? The track? Yeah. I was Flo Jo. I was Janet Jackson.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:18:51

I was Whitney Houston. I was Michael Jackson. Any famous black person they knew, that's what they thought out. They loved so much about it. Oh my god. We didn't have to wear uniforms over there because it's supposed to be secret. Yeah. Like, they don't see me as big old plain swine.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:19:07

No. Yeah. So I had the best job ever. The other part of it, like I said, we did the altitude chambers and the dive chamber. So our unit was part of the hospital unit because of the chamber units. But like I said, the suits, on the job training, they trained us on how to work on the suits. Got that down to the science.

Captain Dakota [: 00:19:28

I can

Sharon McDougle [: 00:19:28

do it in my sleep. So we'd suit them up. We'd take them out to the aircraft and walk them up the splatter and strap them into the aircraft. And then when they fly, the U2 would fly for, like, 8, 9 hours. And then the SR-seventy one, about 2, 2 and a half hours. And so once they landed, we would recover them. And this just went on and on and on. I mean, we worked on their, their survival seat kits.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:19:47

We would do a visual on the parachutes. The parachutes would pack down the street. We had to do everything with their suits, their helmets, their boots, all of their equipment. We would take it apart, put it back together, test it, put it on them, test it again. They pre breathe. They had to get the chamber training to make sure. They'd know one cool test we would do in the chamber where they put all of their suit and helmet and everything on, put them in the chamber, take them up to about 100,000 feet, and have these sensors attached to it to let them and then a bottle of water sitting right in front of them to let them see what would happen if they didn't have their sauna or anything not connected. That water would start boiling.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:20:19

I was like, that would be the fluids in your body. Yeah. So that's a real one to make sure you go make sure everything click clacked and locked on.

Captain Kim [: 00:20:27

Oh, yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:20:28

Yeah. So that's the best that was the best example for them to see. That water started boiling when it when it hit a certain level. That would be your body fluids if you didn't have your equipment on.

Captain Kim [: 00:20:37

Oh, yeah. So did the astronauts form a really intense What are the balloons? Relationship?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:20:44

Some balloons.

Captain Kim [: 00:20:47

Wait. There's a balloon.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:20:48

Up under your screen. I don't know when it came from. It must've been some kind of that was funny. It's like Oh, there's They're gone. They're gone.

Captain Kim [: 00:20:58

Oh my god. I didn't even see him. So did you have a really intense relationship with the astronauts? I mean, because you're the essence.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:21:07

Cole, I was just talking about the pilots in the air force this time.

Captain Kim [: 00:21:09

Oh. Oh. Oh. Okay.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:21:10

The moving over to the space program. So I was there for seven and a half years ish. I chose to depart because I felt like it was turning into a retirement home. Like, all the guys about to retire, they would come there and have their final days. Oh. And what they would do you know how the military is because they have a striper more more than you. You know, they outrank you all of a sudden, even though they don't know the job. I pretty much gave them a tour of the building, and now they're over me watching my to see if I do something correct.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:21:37

So I felt like our job was too important for that. I could have been that person that say I'm not I'm a miss hooking up something on purpose to see if he catch it. Yeah. Because it didn't cross my mind, but my my mechanic and I saw I wouldn't do that and that's that person's life. I'm not playing like that. But I just didn't understand. I don't mind having somebody over me, at all, you know, having a superior, but not somebody that don't know what they're doing. And you coming out to the black line to see if I'm connecting something right, and you don't even just because you got one strike more than me.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:22:05

So I I I so I lost I lost my love affair with the physiological support division, not the Air Force as a whole. So I I decided when they offered it early on, I went ahead and got out. Thought I was grown. Mm-mm. Y'all got a good punch, girl. Reality hit. Because I've never been a civilian. Remember I went in right out of high school? Yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:22:22

So I struck. I was on the struggle bus big time. I got out. I couldn't get a job. I'm thinking, they don't know how awesome I am. The bad job I had. They don't be lined up to hire me. No, ma'am.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:22:36

Then the little pieces of jobs I got, they wouldn't hire full time because they didn't wanna get benefits. So all I had was my car and the clothes on my back because I live in the dorm. I never paid cable, lights, none of that stuff. I so I wasn't really grown. That's all I was telling the kids. You think you're grown when you leave your parents out?

Captain Kim [: 00:22:50

No. Well,

Sharon McDougle [: 00:22:51

I'm leaving my I'm leaving my uncle Sam out, and I realized that I'm not grown.

Captain Kim [: 00:22:56

Well, they don't make it easy either to reintegrate back into society after you're in. You have such an important role in the military and then come out into the civilian world.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:23:06

And you're nobody. You're nobody. Yes. And so thank God my roommate from the Air Force, she had gotten out some years before me, so she was still in the area. So she let me sleep on her futon, and I'll tell all kids. I was like, I'm a look. I know what a futon is, but look it up in the dictionary. It's hard.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:23:20

You're gonna see a hard rock next to it. That. But I had a roof over my head. You know, she stayed there. So for 6 months, I worked 3 part time jobs after being this stellar person in the Air Force. I I, cleaned offices at night. I, had my walkman had my walkman on, pushing through the little office building, cleaning up. You know? I did my best, even though it was a job I didn't want.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:23:45

And then I and then I would go in stock shelves at Office Depot for, like, 3 or 4 hours. And about another 3 or 4 hours, I'll work at this department store in the basement putting price tags on clothes. So those that was my life for 6 months until I got this amazing phone call. This is before I had a cell phone and before Google and all that easy ways to find people. One of my friends that was in the Air Force with me at the same unit, he left before I did, so I had lost touch. He was out here in Houston already working with the space program. They had an immediate opening. Girl, how about this ain't number God? He tracked me down.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:24:19

He remember I don't have my own address. I don't have my own phone. I'm not enlisted nowhere for him to find me. He remembered my roommates. How? That's why I said it was God. How did he remember my roommate from the Air Force and looked for her in the phone book and found her? Look, I'm getting choked Found her. I just happened to be between my job. That's the other part.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:24:37

I could have been at work one of them 3 jobs. I just happened to be laying on that futon between them 3 jobs when he called and said, Sharon, they got an immediate opening doing the same exact thing we did in the Air Force. He already sponsored me. He already prepped them, already told them I'm awesome. I didn't he said, just call this number. Call this number. And I'm still trying to ask questions. He's like, call it right now, because they're looking for somebody right now.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:24:59

And Aquizer number he gave me, it was pretty much a cursory call. I'm ready to walk on water, mind you. I'm ready to tell him I'm this and I did that. And he's like, come out.

Captain Kim [: 00:25:06

As you should.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:25:07

Yeah. And I was ready. He said, come out whenever you're ready. I looked at the phone just like that. That was a real you know, the old school phone. I'm like, what?

Captain Kim [: 00:25:13

The old rotary phones.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:25:15

Is that what you had?

Captain Kim [: 00:25:16

It yes. Yes.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:25:17

It's it's that easy to get a job with the space. I'm not I'm thinking I'm about to go out and do a panel and then do another 3rd interview and all this because somebody saw my work ethic when he worked with me.

Captain Dakota [: 00:25:30

Yeah. He could've

Sharon McDougle [: 00:25:30

he could've called any other person from our unit that was that had left the unit. He thought of me. Girl, I can't thank Ray Bill Lobos enough to this day. Changed my life. Changed my whole life. And so I drove out. I I didn't have no furniture for the mill. You know, they move your stuff once you depart.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:25:47

I didn't have any furniture or anything for the move. I just had my clothes in the car. Car was paid off because I had been over been in over 5 years. And I drove from California to on July 9th. And that's when I started my career with the space program, 1990. Girl. I said, God was trying to make up with me because he took my parents. I said, they're giving me these 2 amazing careers.

Captain Dakota [: 00:26:06

I was

Sharon McDougle [: 00:26:06

like, you did good, but that still don't make up. You know, to to be able to achieve all of that. And, you know, you always hear about college, college, college. But to be able to achieve all that without having a college education is I was just so blessed, so fortunate, so everything. And mind you, I did work hard. It wasn't given to me. I earned it. I mean, because I knew my stuff.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:26:26

Yeah. But to just have the opportunity I'm not gonna even say fall out the sky because everything was in alignment for me. Oh, the other part I forgot to tell you was, went to test the air force. They wanted me to graduate early and come in right then. But thank God, my principal at the high school, doctor Burkett, once again, sat in line, sat in place. Because if she would've said, yeah, you can get out, I would've been an air traffic controller. Yeah. That's what they wanted me to come in early for.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:26:53

And she said, no, Sharon, I have the grades. I was a good student and all that. I even worked in the office, period. And she's like, Sharon, I don't wanna set that precedent, so I thank Doctor. Birkett. Because if she'd have said yes, I'd have had a whole another trajectory, you know? I might have been a nervous breakdown from trying to from crashing planes. Yeah. So everything in this was about pardon me.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:27:14

I mean, I loved them. Loved them. And people just like, how do you be that fortunate to have 2 careers that you loved? I was like, they were very similar, first of all. I loved getting up going to work Yeah. Until, like I said, until they turned into a retirement home at a unit. Other than that, perfect. Perfect. I mean, you can ask for a better career.

Captain Dakota [: 00:27:32

And

Sharon McDougle [: 00:27:32

so then I stepped over into the Space Shuttle program, thanks to my buddy Ray. And, of course, like I said, I had to be qualified and know what I'm doing. So I hit the runaround running because that's what we did in the Air Force. Same job. I didn't have to learn it through their programs and their policies and procedures. I always tell people I got dumber once I got here. And I did it. Because, you know, in the military, we learn it, and it's locked.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:27:54

We're not reading word for word what to do. I knew all the torques for the screws by heart. I knew all the millimeter I knew everything by heart. I want the test, specs for it and everything. So like I have here, like I said, they want you to read the policies and procedures. You have quality inspectors. You have engineers. You have all these other people.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:28:12

Whereas in the military, or in the Air Force at least, it was you. Only time once they train you, what they train you, you do it, and then next time you train somebody and they'll do it. It's all you. Everything you do. Once you sign off that you did something, that was it. So if something happened while that plane flying or whatever, and some rolled that suit, it's they're coming right here. Not to your supervisor and nobody else, no quality engineer, no, quality inspector, none of that. It was you.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:28:37

But when I Yep.

Captain Kim [: 00:28:38

Whoever signed off on that suit. Yep.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:28:40

Exactly. Exactly. But I come here to the space shuttle program, and you have a engineer, you have a quality inspector, you have somebody that writes the paperwork. So I find a say, a little 5 minute task was replacing a demand valve and a breathing regulator, for an example. I remember it because that was one of the first things that I was freaking out. Like, y'all, I can't just fix it. Because in the airports, you fix it. It's broke.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:29:03

You fix it, and you keep it moving. But they were like, no. You found something wrong. You have to let you know, tell your supervisor. They'll call engineers to look at well, no, the quality inspector will write a discrepancy report. And I'm telling them what to write. So it just tickle me. I'm like, okay, I can do all of their jobs.

Captain Kim [: 00:29:20

They probably loved you.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:29:22

Yeah. I'll tell them what to I'll tell them, okay, I'll tell them this is what's wrong. You know, it's not working, blah blah blah. It needs to be suede and all this stuff. Terms ain't never even heard. Right? And so the quality inspector will write it down. They'd send it up. The engineer will read it, come down and talk to me about it.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:29:37

Like I said, a 5 minute job to fix it turns into, like, 2, 3 days. I'm like, oh my can I just fix it already? So I had that military culture to come into the slow pace because, you know, we was like,

Captain Kim [: 00:29:52

Terry. Yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:29:53

No. None of that. You know, wait for so and so to look at it and write the paperwork and stamp it off. And girl, I was like, like this. I'll be like this, and we're like, did I make the right decision? And then things progressed, and I got used to slowing down. I mean, I was working circles around people because that's what we were used to doing, not sitting around. They would literally be sitting around, like, waiting on the paperwork to come down. I'm looking around like, don't we have exercise to get ready for tomorrow? So I just started doing everything.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:30:22

And so there's no other story, because that's how I became and like you said, I was the 1st black space suit technician in there, period, in crew escape. And then I looked even I was, 26, so I still looked like I was about 18. I looked young. So this is the other thing. They looking at me like, she's so young. How does she know how to do y'all know the military, Air Force trained us. Don't play. I can even experience already, even though I look like I'm 18.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:30:48

So I came in, like I said, all night shift, just sweeping switches, doing everything. And then, you know, you can just kinda see them in the background, like, checking me out, the new kid, you know. I'm like, yeah. Let me show y'all something. Let me show you what I'm working with. So it was and after, you know, after I got used to the culture and the little growing pains, everything was wonderful. So I progressed right up the ranks as I knew I would and, became the 1st woman crew chief and first black crew chief after I think it was in 'ninety four. And a crew chief would lead a team of technicians when we do we get assigned to an astronaut crew.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:31:24

So I would lead the technicians to make sure everything is getting done right. And then after that, I became the 1st black manager of the department without having a college degree. Usually management, yeah, because of my heart, what they've seen over the years, you know, from me. So for all 2 years, and the first I wanted to stay a space suit technician because I loved that aspect of the job, working on the suit and taking it apart and all that good stuff. But once you become a management and I told them, y'all might wanna relook at that, though, because, like, say if we lost 2 people, some 2 people get in a car crash or something. I can step right back in and help out because management, you know, we're mainly just doing administrative stuff.

Captain Kim [: 00:32:00

Yeah. It's kinda like going from enlisted to officer in the military.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:32:05

Yeah. But I had topped out in my pay, so I couldn't get any more pay. So I was like, well, when the manager position came up and I just did it for practice because, you know, I didn't think in a 5000000 years I was gonna get it out of 22 applicants. But they knew I bled orange, and I loved my job, and I loved my department like nobody else. And so by me knowing what I'm doing, and I've been responsible the whole time I'm there, that's how I stepped in the when I became crew chief, they actually demoted somebody unheard of with the space program. Demoted somebody that wasn't doing the job because they saw I was already doing it. We even though I wasn't getting paid, and it wasn't my title because I want stuff to get done.

Captain Kim [: 00:32:43

Oh, yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:32:43

And they say, you know what? I mean, this guy would literally literally have his feet up on the table, girl. But I didn't go and snitch and all that. I was just like, you know what? I'm just do worry worry about right here. That's what I always tell the kids too. Worry about you. Don't worry about what Suzy's getting paid or what do your best and do you'd always be on point. And so and it paid off. They noticed it.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:33:03

I got promoted. And when they interviewed all those people for the management position, they remembered all of that. All of that came into play. And I had a panel. It was a panel of 4 or 5 people from across the company. It wasn't just people from our building. Yeah. And when I left out the, interview, I was like, so No worries.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:33:21

That was a plan. I just thought I was gonna go get it. At 8:12, yeah. I got it, girl. I was looking forward. So the last day, even, I was the manager, so I had to got to wear my key outfits and, you know, my heels. You know?

Captain Kim [: 00:33:36

Yes. But

Sharon McDougle [: 00:33:37

they were, glad, you know, to to get assigned to a mission and go down to the Kennedy Space Center because we're up here at at Johnson Space Center in in Houston. But they do all their training here except, TCP, which is, like, their practice launch. And, of course, launch and landing. And sometimes they land in California. But, man, well, it was so wonderful. I wish the space shuttle program hadn't ended. I mean, I had a blast, literally.

Captain Kim [: 00:34:03

And like you said, when you believe in what you're doing and you're so passionate and you believe in yourself, everything else just happens.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:34:13

Yep.

Captain Kim [: 00:34:14

You were recognized with the Astronaut Silver Snoopy Award. What is that?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:34:18

If I remember correctly, I don't I think it was only 10% of the whole space program gets this award. This is thrilling at your job, and then astronauts want to recognize you. It's like one of the top awards you could get with the space program for your work. Girl, I was just like and that was mainly from the work with them. Because you mentioned about being, very hands on and knowing the crew members earlier. In the Air Force, a little bit, because but with the space program, we're training with them for a whole year before they launch, that one particular crew. And I could be assigned to 2 or 3 crews at one time because they're not gonna fly at the same time or train at the very same time. So you get to know them really well, because they got to pretty have, like, about 20 to about approximately 25 suited training events.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:35:06

And so they have to come, and we show them how to you know, we have to put on of course, they could put it on because they have to do it in a space. But it's not to damage our gear so much while they're here on Earth, for 1. So we help them and show them the proper way to pack it and stole it so they don't bang it up too bad or mess it up too bad. Because then we gotta fix it. And a lot of times, they wanna work.

Captain Kim [: 00:35:24

You're like, can I just dress you?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:35:27

And I tell the kids, I'm like, the astronaut's mom. I'm like, they're mommy. I have to get them dressed. Put your foot in, put your foot in. Okay, put that arm in, put that arm in. Now put your head through, you know. And see, the zipper starts way back here at the neck of their neck. So I have to zip it, bring it out to the front, and then snap it for them.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:35:47

And then we put their boots on. Then we put on their communications cap, their helmet, and they could click to the suit, engage it. Last thing are the gloves, because they're helping a little bit while I'm putting it on them, because I want them to get used to it as well, right? Then they put the gloves on, and I pressurize them to make sure everything's working properly before they walk out to the space shuttle. If you ever watched a space shuttle morning, when they walk out, they're only wearing the suit and the boots. The helmet and the communications cap is inside the silver Astro van to ride out to the pad with them. And their harness assembly with their life preserver units and emergency drinking water and all that, and the parachute put all that already out at the shuttle. So they step into their harness, which is right at the entry of the shuttle, which is called the white room. So they put their harness on right there in their communications cap, and then they crawl on into the shuttle and get in their seat.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:36:35

Then we put the helmet on and get them all strapped in and be like, see you when you get back. And what people don't realize, you know, you guys will see like 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, black off. Those will, oh, somebody gave a thumbs down. What and what is all this stuff popping up on your screen? It was on your screen. I don't even see I don't even

Captain Kim [: 00:36:55

see it. Oh my gosh. What in the world? Let me see if I do hand gestures if that No.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:37:01

That didn't do anything. It's just weird. It just popped up. It's it's gone. But, anyway Oh, wow. Okay. So they, yeah. Like I was saying, 54321 is what people they think, okay.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:37:10

They're no. They get suited up. They come put the suit on 4 hours prior.

Captain Kim [: 00:37:17

I was gonna say the amount of time that it takes, 4 hours.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:37:22

No. It and it only only takes about 5 minutes to put the stuff on. But they get suited up that early so they can go out to the pad and get strapped in, and now they're lying there for, like, 3 hours before they blast off. All you guys hear is the phone. They've been out there laying out in that hot sun. Oh my gosh. They have their tubing that goes into there to blow some cool air, but it's not like and they wear liquid cooling garments. They're special underwear that has cold water and some tubing against in the underwear.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:37:53

Yeah. But they're in that suit for a long time before they blast off.

Captain Kim [: 00:37:57

Oh my gosh. I have to ask. How was it meeting doctor Mae Jemison?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:38:03

Oh my god, girl. That was one of the highlights of my career.

Captain Kim [: 00:38:06

Because she's the first African American woman in space.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:38:10

Yes. And I always make sure I let everybody know I made sure I was assigned to be her be her suit technician. Let me tell you, once again, God, how this happened. I got there in 1990. She got assigned to her mission STS 47 in 91. They come see us a year prior to launch. Once they got the launch date, when she came in well, before that, my supervisor, once they get the astronaut crews picked out, he come out, and we got a big plexiglass board in our department. And he'll come out and write the astronaut names, the crew numbers, stuff on there.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:38:40

And then he assigns the technicians. And I had already heard the first black woman was going, so I was just waiting for her name to get wrote up to. Mind you, I've only been there a year, so I'm still new. Once he put her name up there, that was the last name he wrote for STS 47, I took the pen and wrote my name by hers. And then I was like, oh my god. I'm a get fired. I just mashed up and hit all my supervisors. And they had all they were already kinda used to my personalities because I've been there a year.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:39:09

So he's like he just started laughing. Like, I knew you wanted to send her up. I'm like, that's right. I'm the 1st black spaCy technician. And then she's the 1st black normal in his face. I mean, that's a no brainer. Right? And I'm

Captain Kim [: 00:39:19

one of the best.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:39:20

You know? And that's right. That's right. So that's how

Captain Kim [: 00:39:23

I know. So when she came in then, she didn't know about you. Right? They don't know who the technician's gonna be.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:39:29

We never met him.

Captain Kim [: 00:39:30

So what was it like when doctor Mae Jemison saw that you were gonna be her technician?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:39:36

We both were a little giddy inside. Had to get the professional face on, but I know I was, anyway. I speak for me. But, you know, on, but I know I was anyway. I speak for me. But, you know, it had to be good to see somebody else in the room that looked like you. Right? Yeah. And this is our first flight.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:39:49

This is my not my first flight, but, you know, I hadn't been there that long, and I'm the only black person in my department. So it was exciting. It was very exciting, like I said, to even just be able to help help her in any way I could to be as comfortable as possible while she's here on Earth. She did not have to worry about anything to do with that orange pressure suit because she had the best hands working on it. So I just wanted to make sure she felt comfortable and she knew as much as she needed to know about that equipment. If she had any questions, I could I'd be there for her. And anything she needed, I mean, I had to take care of everything from the pencil to the diaper to the I mean, everything that she needed. I was her

Captain Kim [: 00:40:26

girl. I bet she was so grateful for you.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:40:29

She was, and she told me all the time. And she even, recognized me. She had an award her own award ceremony, gala. And she recognized me with this beautiful oh, it's so heavy, girl. It's and it was like all of these amazing women from around the world. It was a women of color in aviation. A women of color in aviation and space. I can't I don't I don't there's something it was something like that title, but I knew it was women of color.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:40:54

So let me tell you, she invited me out to because, you know, she, lived in Chicago area most of her life, even though she was born in Alabama as a child. So her mother was a school teacher. So she had a foundation that named up her mother. And so she's like, hey, Sharon, can you come out and and bring a suit and go talk to some of the local schools? And I'm like, yeah, because that's what I did. I loved, you know, love talking about my dog. And so that's what I thought I was just coming out for. I didn't know I was gonna be recognized along with all these bad women that are pilots, helicopter pilots, lawyer. I mean, just any bad women you could think about.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:41:30

Yeah. Generals. I'm not putting myself in that category, but she did. And I I cried, girl. I cried like a baby. I'm like, she's like and what it was, how they had it set up, it was like, girl, like the Oscars. They started reading just start reading bios. You don't even know who it is.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:41:44

And I'm sitting there just chatting with people. They've already given me out several awards. I'm not thinking I'm getting nothing. I'm just there to be in the room with all these bad women. I'm I was fangirling horror, girl. And then I'm like, wait a minute. I heard something that sounded familiar. She said, crew chief.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:42:00

I'm like, that's me. Exactly. And I went back to, like, a little kid. I was like, I was like, they're talking about me. And by the time the voice I called the voice had gone from behind the curtain who I was reading it when they finished reading my bio. I had noodle legs, girl. I was shocked. I was just shocked.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:42:20

Because not in a 1000000 years I thought she would be doing that for me. She's recognizing her other astronauts. I mean, there was the one woman I made from Cuba. She flew planes and rescued people that were trying to cross the war. I mean, just it was so many women that were so amazing to it's like, you reach out and touch somebody, everybody was just amazing.

Captain Kim [: 00:42:39

Yeah. But you're amazing because you're part of that team. And without you, she would not have been able to do her job.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:42:47

But I just wouldn't even I was just glad to have been invited to go to the school. And she wouldn't surprise me, obviously, because she didn't tell me I was getting the award. And, boy, did she surprise me. Oh my goodness. So it was that was just like, oh.

Captain Kim [: 00:43:01

That had to feel good.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:43:02

I was like a little kid because I loved her so much. She was such an amazing woman. She always treated me just like I was one of her friends. You know? She didn't try to be superior or any of that stuff. And she could and she had every right if she wanted to. Speaking different languages, got all these degrees. I mean, just amazing human being. Yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:43:20

She treated me so kindly. I was so fortunate to be able to work with her. So fortunate. So fortunate. I'm so glad I was there at that time. Like I said, it was lined up for me to be there at that moment. Yeah.

Captain Dakota [: 00:43:30

Because because

Sharon McDougle [: 00:43:30

if I would've got there in 1991, I would've been too new to the NASA processes to be on that mission. I got there in 90. I had already been training for a year. She got assigned. I'm her suit tech. 92, we make history together.

Captain Kim [: 00:43:44

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You did. And you're still paying it forward.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:43:51

Yes.

Captain Kim [: 00:43:52

So you are you are just as humble as she was.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:43:58

It's crazy to think about my path. It's just

Captain Kim [: 00:44:01

Yeah. That's why

Sharon McDougle [: 00:44:02

I love I love telling because I want people to know, not not even just not just kids, mainly kids, of course, but even women that are going through something. It's like one of my favorite things is your current situation is not your final destination. It might look gloom or whatever right now. You might not have the raise you want or whatever, but this isn't the end. This isn't the end.

Captain Kim [: 00:44:21

Well, I was just gonna ask you that. What advice would you tell women in the military or thinking of going into the military? What advice would you give them?

Sharon McDougle [: 00:44:32

Well, women in the mill military, if you were like me and that's all you ever done, you wouldn't write out of my script. Know that you ain't grown yet. Make sure you got your ducks in a row before you just separate from the service. My plan was, like like I said, to go to college, to I was I was gonna retire, do 20 years at least, because I love the service. But things changed. And with that one, you can change your mind too. You don't have to be stay stuck in a career or in a situation you don't wanna be in. It'll be scary because that's what you're comfortable with.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:45:01

That's what you've always known. Like, my whole adult life pretty much has been spacesuits. You know? Yeah. But the space shuttle retired, and it gave me that kick in the pants to say, hey. You gotta go do something else because this job is gone. The company doesn't even exist anymore, you know?

Captain Kim [: 00:45:15

So Yeah.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:45:16

You gotta go do something else. And sometimes that's what it takes for you to have to get out and go and, you know, feel around and see what else you like. What else should even though I'm still kinda in the spacesuit realm because I loved my job so much that I wrote a children's book about it. But, no, that's my advice, though. And if but also and once again, I always kinda say it to kids, but it's for anybody. If you see something you wanna do, something new that you've never done, you know, get a mentor. It's so easy now because we got all the social media and technology and stuff. And people love to talk about their jobs and themselves, so don't get shy.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:45:51

Reach out to somebody if you want what you wanna do. We love I know. Doug, I tell you because I talk to your you know, I've been mentors through several programs. And not just work stuff, just life stuff. Like, one one young man I mentored, I did I told him how to cook a spaghetti. I was like, you need to know how to cook something. Even if it's just the sauce and the noodles, you can't just go grab a hot dog or, you know, you gotta you need to cook at least 2 things. I told them about scrambled eggs.

Sharon McDougle [: 00:46:13

That's an easy one, you know? So, you know, all that stuff comes into play. It's not just about your job and your work life, you know? You have to be a well rounded person, You know, that's why I like to volunteer as well and give back. And boots on the ground. It's nice to give money, and they need money, but boots on the ground is needed as well. We need to meet you out there letting people see that you're doing the work.

Captain Kim [: 00:46:33

You have such a beautiful message, and you your journey was so courageous. But I have to say, Sharon, I think one of the most courageous things that you did was trust the process. Trust your journey. Thank you for tuning into Dog Tag Diaries. We appreciate your willingness to listen and engage with these stories as we understand the challenge that comes with sharing and hearing them. Your support in witnessing the experience of our military women is invaluable. These stories are meant to inspire and provide meaning, and we hope they can help you find your own voice as well.

Captain Dakota [: 00:47:13

If you or anyone you know are in need of immediate help, call the crisis line by dialing 988, then press 1. There are resources available to help and provide guidance during difficult times. Please visit our website, www.reveilleandretreatproject.org to learn more about the Reveille and Retreat Project, including upcoming retreats for military women and resources. The link is in the show notes. We'll be here again next Wednesday. Keep finding the hope, the healing, and the power in community.