Resilience and Ambition: How Dr. Allison Brager Reached for the Stars -44

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Kim [: 00:00:01

From elite athlete to army officer to Nassau hopeful, doctor Allison Brager has never backed down from a challenge. She grew up in one of the most dangerous cities in The United States, became a record breaking pole vaulter, and later answered the call to serve after 09:11. From leading COVID nineteen deployment operations in New York City to pushing the limits of human performance, she is proof that resilience and ambition can take you anywhere, even to space. Tune in as she shares her journey, lessons learned, and why her advice for military women is simple. Take no prisoners and find your sisterhood. Welcome to Dog Tag Diaries. I'm your host, Captain Kim. Our podcast is where military women speak their truths and share the stories that have shaped their lives.

Kim [: 00:00:59

From moments of resilience to hard won triumphs, we hold nothing back. Twenty twenty four was a year of incredible milestones for this community. Our voice were heard in over 33 countries around the world, and we ranked in Apple Podcast's top 200 impersonal journeys in The United States, a testament to the power of authentic storytelling. Now as we launch season four, we invite you to journey with us once again. This is more than a podcast. This is a movement. Let's break barriers, shatter silence, and amplify the voices of military women everywhere. Thank you for listening, sharing, and making this possible.

Kim [: 00:01:48

This is dog tag diaries. Doctor Allison Brager is a neuroscientist, army officer, and elite athlete with a passion for pushing limits. She's a former CrossFit games competitor and an 11 time gay Olympics gold medalist and an endurance athlete who tackled the JFK fifty miler, the New York City Marathon, and a 3.5 open water swim. She's also the author of Meathead, unraveling athletic brain and a candidate for NASA's astronaut program. Doctor Allison, welcome to Dog Tag Diaries.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:02:32

Oh, it's so great to be here. It's so nice to meet you a few weeks ago through the soldiers to sidelines event too.

Kim [: 00:02:38

Oh, yeah. Let's talk about that. We met through soldiers to sidelines, had a military women coaching certification seminar, and you were one of the keynote speakers on sleep for performance. And, oh my gosh, as an athlete myself, you totally caught my attention because I truly believe that effective sleep is so important for recovery. So I wanted to say thank you for presenting on that topic.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:03:06

Oh, you're very welcome. I mean, I think, you know, sleep can be a performance enhancing drug as I like to say. It's just a matter of if you take advantage of it or not.

Kim [: 00:03:17

Yeah. And I can't wait to get into that more, and we will. But, also, you caught my attention when you when they said that you've read a book called the meathead, unraveling athletic brain, which just caught my attention because what a creative title. It just kept me so curious. I'm like, wait a second. What is this all about? And so we have so much to talk about, and I just wanna start by asking you, like, let's talk about little old Allison. What were you like when you were younger?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:03:50

I actually I mean, it's sort of Meathead is an embodiment of who I've been. So I I grew up an athlete, and I had two goals in life. It was to be a professional athlete and to be an astronaut. Like, that's what I wanted to be, and I accomplished the one, obviously, through the help of the army. Like, being a part of the world class athlete program was I mean, this assignment has been really good too, but that was a very special three years of my time in service was just being nothing but a full time professional athlete. But now I'm, you know, on trying to accomplish my second lifelong dream, which is to be an astronaut.

Kim [: 00:04:28

Wait. You knew just from when you were little?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:04:31

Okay. So where I grew up, there actually is an ESPN documentary about Youngstown, Ohio because we produce a lot of professional athletes, professional boxers, football players. Really, it speaks to, like, the Rust Belt mentality of having grit, and it's an area with a lot of poverty, a lot of crime, not a whole lot of opportunities for education or anything else. So you're sort of either consciously or subconsciously thought that being good at athletics is your ticket out of town. Oh. So I always thought I was good at sports, and I didn't realize I was great at sports until I went to college. So I I went to a really large high school, and we are, like, one of six high schools in Youngstown. And in my class of 500, I had three people who played in the NFL.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:05:26

There were probably 45 of us who went on to get division one college scholarships. My classmate, Tyler, tried out for the Olympic team in swimming. I also tried to see if I can make the Olympic team in track and field. We had a WNBA player and an insane amount of athleticism in Northeast Ohio. I grew up actually very close to LeBron James too. So LeBron James and I are the same age. We graduated high school the same year. I used to see him play in high school.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:05:58

And, you know, being from Northeast Ohio, like, sports are king because that's all you're sort of taught and trained to do. And I don't think you realize, like, how good you are as an athlete until you leave Northeast Ohio and you go somewhere else.

Kim [: 00:06:12

Well yeah. Because you're just conditioned, right, in that lifestyle.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:06:15

You're right. Yeah. I thought it was above, like, average to maybe above average, and then I get to college. And I was like, oh, I'm actually, like, a pretty good athlete.

Kim [: 00:06:25

Well, growing up in the one of the most dangerous cities, do you feel like people went one way or the other? Like, either went towards sports or towards, like, a less healthy drug?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:06:36

Oh, absolutely. So, I mean, I'll publicly say this. Like, half my cousins are in prison for drug trafficking. So, like, it's one of the two. Like, my brother and I, we both played college sports. Actually, again, not thinking about it, like, half my cousins went to college and were d one athletes. And then, unfortunately, the other half, like, I have two cousins who are in federal prison for life for drug trafficking. So it's like it's one of two extremes.

Kim [: 00:07:04

Yeah. And what would you say who was it your parents who kinda pushed you more towards the athlete mentality?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:07:13

Yeah. I mean, I think a lot of it has to I credit my parents, but, really, I credit my, like, high school coaches. Like, I am very grateful for my parents. I think they weren't, by any means, helicopter parents. Like, I learned what a helicopter parent is when I got to college because I felt like I was immersed in a world of friends who had helicopter parents, and, honestly, I do not envy them at all. But, yeah, my parents did like, they trusted my brother and I to make good decisions and would course correct us if we were making the wrong decision. But growing up in such a high crime area because we had an organizational active mob. So, of course, there's a lot of drug trafficking around the mob.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:07:58

Again, that's a lot of, like, what my cousins got caught up in. There's only so much you can do before you're down that road, and then that's the road you're gonna go down. But, yeah, that's if you look at a lot of people from Youngstown, Ohio, they've gone from one extreme to the other. They either went on and were phenomenal athletes or students, or they're in prison or have served their time in prison because of drug trafficking or homicides, etcetera, associated with organized crime in our town.

Kim [: 00:08:28

Well, thank goodness you went towards the athletic.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:08:32

Yes. I'm very grateful.

Kim [: 00:08:35

Yeah. Where did you go to college, and what did you major in, and what sports did you do?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:08:41

So I went to Brown for undergrad. I did get recruited by the Ivy Leagues and then the military academies starting my junior year of high school. Actually, West Point was my top choice. But at the time, our country went to war, so my parents were like, no. You're not going to the Naval Academy or West Point because we're at war. So it came down between Harvard, Cornell, and Brown. I felt very out of place at Harvard. Right? Like, the kind of life I had lived for eighteen years did not match the culture at Harvard.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:09:15

Cornell actually, like, terrified me because whoever, like, hosted me for my recruiting trip basically I don't know, Brown just felt at home. Like, it was a bunch of wealthy hippies who just they may may have come from means of affluence, but they, like, very much were about my values of public service and hard work, and so I'm happy I made that decision.

Kim [: 00:09:48

And what did you major in?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:09:51

I actually majored in classics at first, which is the translation of Latin and Greek. So this sounds really strange, but Latin class is my favorite class in high school. I loved translating Latin, and I think it's because it's a science. Right? It's not so much there's an art and a science to it. Like, there's very vague interpretation of what you're reading, and you have to, like, transport yourself into this mind of someone from thousands of years ago and, like, the rules of engagement of interacting in their society mixed with all these grammatical and verbiage and different rules of the English language. So, yeah, that's what I majored in. But then I found neuroscience, and I switched my major to psychology and neuroscience.

Kim [: 00:10:39

Isn't that just, like, the best topic in the world, neuroscience? Being able to, like, change the way you think and restructure all of that if you have trauma. Yeah. Able to restructure that.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:10:54

Yeah. No. Absolutely. I think that's I mean, that's what always fascinated me about neuroscience is, you know, I did high risk sports. Right? I was a gymnast. So I I was a gymnast for eighteen years. I did dance and gymnastics growing up, so I spent four to five hours in. And then I found pole vault my junior year because that was the first year girls were actually allowed to pole vault in the state of Ohio, which is crazy.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:11:17

So you cannot pole vault as a high school girl in Ohio. What year was that? 02/2002. Wow. Yeah. So my track coach, she, like, knew on the team who were gymnasts. Like, we're gymnasts or presently gymnasts. So my teammates who I literally spent four to five hours in the gym with every day, we started pole vaulting, and there was one pole vault coach in the entire county. And we, would drive to this other high school in Youngstown twice a week and learn from coach Joe.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:11:49

So it was pretty cool.

Kim [: 00:11:50

And you became a record breaking pole vaulter.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:11:54

Yes. Well, in the beginning, right, like, it always used to be funny with the school announcements because a big part of the school announcements celebrated athletic accomplishments. Like, that's the one thing about my high school is, like, you had no choice but to be an athlete, and this sounds horrible to say. If you weren't an athlete, you were, like, a loser. So, like, our high school celebrated sports, and it still does today. Right? We have, like, just legendary NFL players who've graduated from my high school. And it's a public high school too. It's not a private high school.

Kim [: 00:12:26

And legendary female record breaking pole vaulters. You are so accomplished, and you're so humble. I'm gonna blow you up here and tell you that. Like, I'm just gonna be like, you are amazing. You are the best.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:12:40

Well, I appreciate that. I need to do better about celebrating myself sometimes. But, yeah, my classmates used to joke with me. They're like, oh, look. Another track made, Allison, setting another record. Because it's, like, literally, if I won a track meet or a invitational or, like, the first year of districts, regionals, and state, I didn't win state that year. I got fourth. But I did win districts and regionals.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:13:04

Like, I got a record because I was the first to do it. Yes.

Kim [: 00:13:11

That's so amazing. And then how did you find your way into the military? Were your parents military?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:13:18

No. So I think that calling to serve had always been there. Right? Like I told you, I wanted to go to West Point. I mean, really, I served because of 09/11. Right? I did have classmates from high school who went right to war. And, actually, I work with one of my classmates from high school. He's our command sergeant major here, so it is, like, really funny to connect with him. And it was just always in the back of my mind that I wanted to go into service.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:13:43

Right? Because I was always enamored by education, like being a teacher or being a coach. And that's what I did, right, throughout graduate school. I coached. I taught biology classes. I still coach and teach biology classes today. I had the opportunity to do a research fellowship at Walter Reed at their research institute when I was finishing off my fellowship training in Atlanta, Georgia. And, yeah, my first day there, the department chair was like, oh, do you wanna join the military? And I was like, I'm 33 years old. I'm pretty sure I cannot join the military.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:14:20

And they're like, no. You actually can't. Yeah. I never looked back after that. So I was like, oh, this is my second calling for service. So I went back to Walter Reed, and I served there in the behavioral biology branch overseeing research and sleep and physiology and neuroscience for a few years. And then I tried out for the army's CrossFit team, made it, and moved to Fort Knox, Kentucky where I basically was a professional athlete for three years, and I did take company command too. And I also had was on the COVID deployment in New York City in the middle, which I'm very grateful for because at that point, like, we weren't allowed to train anymore.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:15:00

All recruiting operations had essentially moved to virtual. I think I woulda lost my complete mind, and I also felt hopeless. Right? Like, I feel like the COVID deployment was my call to service as a medical officer, and to not be boots on ground would've, I think, psychologically, I don't say destroyed me, but it's it definitely psychologically would've disturbed me.

Kim [: 00:15:25

Yeah. Well, the whole world shut down with COVID except for medical. And so we were the ones that were there helping.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:15:33

Yeah. Were you there too?

Kim [: 00:15:35

I wasn't in New York City, but I do ER. And so I was there what had changed, right, with, like, wearing your respirators and, like I mean, we we train in the military with our NBC gear, but, you know, you're only in it for, like, an hour or two. But being in it for, like, twelve hours is tough. It's a tough movement. However, like you, I felt the need to serve as well. And so if I wasn't able to be part of that, I would have felt like, at least me, I would have felt, like, useless and probably avoiding

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:16:10

Nope. Absolutely. I volunteered to be on the activation list not knowing if we were to get activated or not, but I'm so grateful I did.

Kim [: 00:16:19

Yeah. New York City was tough, I heard. I mean, I know the whole nation was tough, but New York City, talk about that a little bit.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:16:28

It's interesting. Right? Because I have friends who were activated to very remote places like in Wisconsin, in the Dakotas. So they didn't have a lot of not to downplay death, but they didn't have a lot of casualties there. They did have very limited resources, whereas we had, I would say, but close to unlimited resources and a lot of casualties. I mean, my job in charge of clinical lab was to keeping the lab stocked, right, with everything to do, arterial blood gases, right, and all the other biomarkers to look at if this person is stable or are they in a physiological medical crisis. Because, really, this sounds horrible to say, but a lot of times, they were sent to us to be peaceful, right, whether they lived or died. Like, we had a lot of sundowning patients from the nursing homes, a lot of people from the psych ward in the early days of the Javits Center. And so our job, just like other any field support hospital, was to stabilize them and keep them alive.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:17:40

So as a matter of, like, wheeling and dealing with Andrew Cuomo's state health department and then the Defense Health Agency and, like, finding supplies wherever we could. Like, we even had to take vans and, like, go to Keller Army Hospital up at West Point. We'd have to go down to DC, like, whatever means possible. I mean, we slowly siphoned the supply chain of the Comfort, right, because the Comfort was only open for five days. And so we took that supply chain, not all at once, but bit by bit so as to be legal. But it certainly was an interesting experience even from the perspective of, like, logistics.

Kim [: 00:18:25

Yeah. It was very, like, unconditional way of practicing for sure. And then, like, when people would become deceased, we're disposing of them in a very unconventional way.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:18:38

Yeah. I mean, I will say probably the most moving days there were like, we did do honor guard ceremonies for fallen veterans. Right? So vets who had passed away there, like, that they brought all of us to tears. You know? We brought in a color guard and all. So

Kim [: 00:18:55

Well, thank you for that. I didn't know that. So thank you.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:18:58

Yeah. It made me really upset that the media because the constant message in the media was that Javits Center is empty, and this is a waste of government resources and time, and, like, people had no idea. Like, we had a lot of beds. Right? We had 3,000 beds, but at one point, more than half the beds were filled. We were still trying to keep 1,500 people alive and stabilized and not die. So people who are already in critical condition. I think the other thing too was the messaging for because at first, we were only supposed to get COVID convalescent patients. Right? Somebody who was potentially exposed to COVID.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:19:40

Right? Because we didn't really have a high fidelity test then. But at a certain point, there was and this is where army health care practice of care system doesn't talk with the civilian health care. We started getting COVID patients, and none of us knew that we actually had COVID patients. But, fortunately, like, our PPEs were so strict because, again, trade offs. Right? We had the most casualties, but we also had the most resources. We doubled up on n 95 masks on everything, like the bleaching system going into the patient floor, leaving the patient floor. Like, we were quadruple protected, but it didn't really matter. Right? But there was, I think, psychologically, at one point, like, we didn't know that day.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:20:27

Like, being out on the patient floor, we were around COVID patients, but, you know, we had the proper PPE.

Kim [: 00:20:33

Yeah. I I feel like even if with the proper PPE, like, when you're on that long of hour shifts, like twelve or sixteen hours, you're still breaking seal, you know, respirators or that, and so the seal's not staying as protective as it should. I know, like, I ended up getting COVID even with the proper gear. Yeah. Oh, and we're going down this COVID ramp, and I love it. But I wanna get back to you, Allison, like, because you are you're so accomplished and this is about you and I wanna learn more. So you went to college and then got commissioned as an officer.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:21:08

That was way later, though. So I had done, like, four thirteen years of schooling before I got commissioned. So, basically, after college, I continued to improve in pole vault, and then I did the hurdles in college. And so I thought to myself, maybe I could try to make an Olympic team. And it just so happened at the time, the guy who really taught me how to pole vault was Dennis Mitchell at the University of Akron. So the University of Akron has the most successful pole coach in this country. Like, Dennis Mitchell has taken kids from Northeast Ohio or just any average pole vaulter and has turned them into Olympic champions. And I say that because Katie Nagios, I always mispronounce her name, or Katie Moon, she is a byproduct of Northeast Ohio, trained with Dennis Mitchell, and won the gold medal in 2020 and was the silver medalist this Olympics in 2024.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:22:07

So, like, that's why I selfishly went to graduate school.

Kim [: 00:22:11

To be coached by him?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:22:13

Yeah. To, like, be coached by him and then the Kent State coach at that time. He was really good too. Obviously, quickly, I learned I cannot get a PhD in neuroscience, biology, and make the Olympic team at the same time. Right? And to be honest with you, I was on the lower end, so I gave up that Olympic dream. Did my four years four and a half years of graduate school, got my PhD in biology, and then I did a fellowship in Atlanta, Georgia at Morehouse School of Medicine where I was faculty at the med school and then at Morehouse College, which is the historically black university that Martin Luther King graduated from. So that was pretty cool because, you know, very highly professional elite college, obviously, transcends race. Right? I'm a white woman, and I'm here teaching a group of historically black men.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:23:05

But it was great leadership challenge for me as well.

Kim [: 00:23:09

Oh, I like that take on it. Yes.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:23:12

And then I found CrossFit. So that's how I got into CrossFit was I was looking to fill that competitive void. I missed doing Olympic weight lifting. I used to get kicked out of the weight room at Kent State for trying to Olympic lift and a lot of early days of CrossFit. You did well if you were a former college athlete and or gymnast.

Kim [: 00:23:32

Wait. Why would you get kicked out?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:23:34

Because in a lot of rec centers and fitness centers, you're not supposed to drop the weights.

Kim [: 00:23:39

Oh, yes. Okay.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:23:42

Like, drop weights. You're not supposed to do any sort of dynamic movement. Like, I even got kicked out one day because I was doing these, like, plyometric drills with the medicine ball and jumping and, like, throwing the ball on the wall. Like, all these different dynamic drills we would do to practice power, speed, agility, web, pole vault. And they're like, no. You can't do that here.

Kim [: 00:24:01

Nice. So neuroscience, do you use that with veterans and trauma?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:24:08

Not so much veterans, but definitely active duty. I did a lot of work when I was at Walter Reed. We started transitioning a lot of these neuromodulatory devices where it's taking so, like, transcranial magnetic stem, transcranial electrical stem. There's also another one that's called TDS, transcranial direct stem. You're basically meant to take your brain because, right, post trauma, you have a lot of noise in the waking EEG. There's a lot of gamma and beta waves, which are really high frequency waves, and these devices are meant to slow down the waking EEG so that it's in a you know, we call it the alpha state, right, which we know alpha, like EEG, promotes vigilance, attention, focus, concentration, things that are all very difficult to do post TBI and brain trauma.

Kim [: 00:25:09

Okay. We need to talk about this because this is really interesting. And so you'll measure all this data on the active duty on the soldiers. And then how do you use it to further help them in their treatment plan?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:25:26

So this is actually part of the standard practice of care in the centers for intrepid spirits now. So they actually have, like, alpha wave machines, and some of these centers even have, like, transcranial magnetic stim machine. It's basically a a portable machine just like an ultrasound or any of the other machines you see in a physical therapy clinic, and they go through multiple sessions. The other thing, I'm not directly involved with this study, but I did strategically set up things on the back end with the FDA and all of our governing organizations, and that's psychedelic psycho assisted therapy. So I don't know if you saw, but the DOD gave Walter Reed ten million dollars to run the first psychedelic psycho assisted therapy on active duty soldiers for psychological trauma.

Kim [: 00:26:18

Okay. What does that mean?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:26:20

So, basically, using psilocybin, MDMA. So the thing that about psychedelics is they have a high affinity for serotonin receptors. Right? We know serotonin receptors are significantly impacted by all kinds of trauma. Blast related trauma, psychological trauma, it's the neurochemical that is the basis for major depressive disorder, anxiety disorder, etcetera. And it seems to be the research that was done on psychedelics many years ago that because they have such a high affinity for these receptors, there are nearly permanent and long term neuroadaptive alterations in these receptors that can lead to better treatment outcomes on the back end. A lot of it's been championed by Johns Hopkins, Harvard. There's, like, a reinvigoration of psychedelics in a very controlled setting. Right? And that's why the FDA is involved in a lot of this now.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:27:21

We helped write or provided guidance on a draft document that the FDA wrote or published for best industry practices in terms of how to appropriately conduct randomized clinical trials using these substances? Because, obviously, we've learned history has told us from the late seventies, this got out of control when they were first used for treatment.

Kim [: 00:27:45

Well yeah. Right? You need to have a controlled environment. You need to have facilitators.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:27:49

Yeah. What's interesting is if you look back in the history of the government, this isn't new territory for us. Like, there's this famous operation called Operation Paperclip, and it was during the seventies, during the Cold War era, the CIA was using psychedelics to use it as truth serum. And there's a book. It's called Poisoner in Chief, and it talks about the whole history of Operation Paperclip. But that was used, I would say, for nefarious reasons. That was used for operational reasons. Right? We're talking about use of this for very therapeutic beneficial reasons for health.

Kim [: 00:28:26

Yeah. And now we're doing it therapeutically before we're trying to get information.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:28:32

Yeah. Yeah. And they have whole types of these programs for veterans too. There's a lot of benevolent organizations. Again, I'm not involved with the actual randomized clinical trials of this, but as someone like, my background's in pharmacology, and we did a lot of early testing of substances like this, like substances with a high affinity for serotonin when I was a graduate student in animal models. So I guess I know a lot about the biology and physiology, but not about the implementation.

Kim [: 00:29:00

Yeah. Yeah. We have a treatment center here in Oregon, a psilocybin treatment center.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:29:05

Oh, you do? Okay. Awesome. That's so cool.

Kim [: 00:29:08

Yeah. Where do you work now?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:29:11

So I work for the schoolhouse that assesses and selects special operators, so in Fort Bragg.

Kim [: 00:29:18

Oh, okay. What does that mean?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:29:21

So that's like if you wanted to be a Green Beret or if you wanted to be special forces support like psychological operations or civil affairs, you would come through here to do assessment and selection, you know, physical assessment, but also cognitive assessment too.

Kim [: 00:29:38

Okay. How did you get there? Because I hear that NASA is on your radar. You're a NASA astronaut candidate program. Are you

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:29:47

Yeah. So as far as I know, I'm still in the pipeline for the class of 2024. I was a semifinalist in the class of 2020. So, honestly, I think that's how I ended up here is and this is a last minute decision for me to come here. It wasn't even on my radar. I was supposed to go to Walter Reed's medical research directorate in Africa, And I think the director of one of the programs here at the time saw that I was a NASA astronaut applicant, and so he called me up. And he's like, I want you to come here. And I was like, no, sir.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:30:20

I wanna go to Africa. And he's like, no. You're I promise you need to come here. And, honestly, I know this is gonna be probably my best assignment in the army. It's like, everyone here just values my expertise, values my time. I've never been more treated as a professional and respected here than anywhere else in my army career.

Kim [: 00:30:40

That has to feel good.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:30:41

It does. But, you know, all good things must come to an end, and I'm going to teach at West Point here shortly.

Kim [: 00:30:47

Oh my gosh. So you get to actually go to look at that full circle.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:30:51

I know. That is true. I didn't you know what? I didn't even think about that. Like, yeah, it is full circle that I get to go teach at West Point after I realized.

Kim [: 00:30:59

That's where you wanted to go, to one of the academies.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:31:03

I definitely will be helping out, hopefully, with the track and field team. So that's I'm looking forward to it.

Kim [: 00:31:08

Oh, they'll be lucky to have you.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:31:11

Yeah. I'm very excited to get back into the classroom. Like, I teach online biology genetics classes for my wife's university, but it's not the same being in the classroom full time. Right? I'm not pooh pooh ing on, like, virtual education, but I just still feel the dynamics are so different in brick and mortar institutions.

Kim [: 00:31:33

Oh, yeah. And especially with the cadets at West Point. Yeah. Well, I hope you feel just as valued there. I feel like you will. I feel like they'll be very grateful to have you there. What happens with the astronaut side with this?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:31:50

So how it works with NASA, like, you don't really know when they're going to call. So when I applied the first time in 2020, it was almost two years before I got a call from NASA to come down to Johnson Space Center for assessment and selection. It's kind of like the same timeline now, so we're coming up on exactly a year since I reapplied. And here's the thing. When you don't get selected, they don't give you any feedback. Like, they will tell you if you're psychologically disqualified or medically disqualified. Right? Because the whole at least the portion I went to, like, it's a lot of medical assessments. Right? And that's the hardest part is they wanna make sure you're extremely healthy.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:32:29

Right? Yeah. I never heard anything about that, but, you know, I've also heard that the astronauts have the current core, a lot of them have reapplied three or four times. So I think that's part of it too. They really wanna see, like, how much you want it.

Kim [: 00:32:45

Yeah. Well, they have no idea who they're dealing with because it looks like you have, like, all this perseverance and dedication. Yeah.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:32:54

But so do a lot of I'm telling you, when I was there, there was not a single person who I was like, why is this person here? Like, everyone is a badass in their own regard. Like, there's this one guy, Ved. He discovered a planet in a different solar system when he was in high school. Okay? And then he discovered this rock of great importance on the ocean floor that was in the Smithsonian, and he called the Smithsonian and had the rock checked out to bring to his interview. Like, this is so I was competing.

Kim [: 00:33:26

Yeah.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:33:28

So I was like, I'm a neuroscientist who studies, like, drug pharmacology and how drugs impact the brain and behavior and physiology. I mean, I am a great athlete. Like, that there's a lot of attributes from athletics that obviously translate into being an astronaut. Right? You have to know how to move your body in time and space or lack of. Right? You know? Without gravity. But, yeah, it was interesting.

Kim [: 00:33:54

Oh my gosh. Well, I wish you all the luck in that and going to West Point and being one of the Paul Volter coaches. That's amazing.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:34:03

Yeah. It does actually I will say I give a shout out to my parents. I've had great supportive parents over the years. Like, you know, they've always been supportive of everything my brother and I have done, and I've also had great teachers and coaches too. Like, despite the environments I've grown up in, like, if it wasn't for them, I would not be where I am today.

Kim [: 00:34:23

Oh, that was a sweet shout out, and I have to agree with you. Like, support is everything. That support system is everything.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:34:31

Oh, yeah. For sure. Yeah. I mean, you know this, like, not getting too dark, but, like, I always tell my soldiers. I was like, never not answer the phone when somebody's calling you from six years ago serving six years ago because you might be the last person they wanna call before they're deciding to make a decision. And I hate to say that. I've had that happen twice, like, where for whatever reason, I'm the person that they've decided to call to reconcile with this psychological demon that they're trying to wrestle. So, you know, I always tell my soldiers that, like, keep that support network alive, like, for as long as you can.

Kim [: 00:35:14

Oh, that's such strong, powerful advice. I love that. And I am gonna ask you because your advice for military women is simple. Take no prisoners and find your sisterhood.

Kim [: 00:35:26

But I think we'd like to talk about that because that's how we we close our podcast is by asking, like, what advice would you give to military women?

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:35:34

You have to ignore the noise. If you know the decision is legal, moral, ethical, you've done the calculated personal analysis. You've consulted the experts to make that decision. No matter what anyone else says, you just have to go forward with it. And whatever they say about you and who you are and why is this person allowed to make a decision because I've heard that before. Right? You just have to go with it. I think we're still making progress, but there are certain things that are baffling to me. Like, when I took company command, that unit that company had been around since 1936, and I was the very first female commander in 2021.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:36:19

How is it that this unit had been around for almost a hundred years without a female being in charge? And then I got there, like, soldiers, super respectful and grateful for me, but it is it was funny how, like, you know, towards their end of their time with me, they're like, ma'am, you're the first female platoon sergeant, squad leader, commander I've ever had. I didn't know what to expect. I was like, you know what? You thought I'd just go in my office and cry every day and you know? Why even till I got a yes? No. Like, we base our decisions just like you base your decisions.

Kim [: 00:36:57

Yes. It's interesting just because we're a different gender. Right? Yeah. That curiosity came up for them.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:37:04

Yeah. But I think in that lens, you also need a strong sisterhood to, like, back you up. So I feel very fortunate because when I was in company command, fortunately, without talking too much tea, but our first battalion commander was relieved within ninety days of the assuming command. And he definitely was sexist and a lot of other things. And so it really helped during that time. Like, all three of our company commanders, we were all female. Right? And, like, probably the first of the companies of this battalion that had been around since 1936. And, like, we stuck together.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:37:42

And, really, that is what helped get this man relieved of command. Not because we made complaints, but because other people started to notice that through merit, through performance, through professionalism, and competence that we were the ones who were, like, carrying the battalion forward and not this individual.

Kim [: 00:38:01

You're breaking barriers, like, all over the place, and I love it. And I can't wait to stay in touch and hear about when you get selected Oh, well, thank you. For NASA? Absolutely. Because you will. You will. You have that spirit. You have that tenacity.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:38:19

Well, I like to think that's something I got from my mother. So

Kim [: 00:38:23

Well, Allison, thank you so much for being on dog tag diaries.

Dr. Allison Brager [: 00:38:27

I know. Well, thank you so much.

Kim [: 00:38:31

Thank you for joining us on this episode of dog tag diaries, where military women speak their truth and share their true stories. Every story told here is a step towards understanding, healing, and connection. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. And remember, your voice matters. Together, we're building a community that empowers, uplifts, and inspires. Stay connected with us. Follow Dog Tag Diaries. Leave a review.

Kim [: 00:39:03

And let's continue to amplify the voices of women warriors around the world. Your voice matters. Share your thoughts and reviews to help us grow, improve, and continue making an impact. Until next next time, stay strong, stay true, and keep sharing your story.