Breaking Barriers and Reclaiming Purpose: Dr Jaimie Lusk’s Story of Courage and Truth -48

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Kim [: 00:00:04

She joined the Marine Corps to challenge herself and left believing she'd never looked back. But years later, a walk into the Denver VA changed everything. In this episode of Dog Tag Diaries, Dr. Jamie Lusk shares her journey from a mud loving horse showing slightly dorky kid to a Marine Corps officer at war to to a nationally recognized trauma psychologist. With fierce honesty and unexpected humor, she opens up about leadership clashes, moral injury, Disneyland, jail and the healing that comes from being a little flawed, a little fearless and totally real. This episode is raw, real and powerfully insightful. A must listen for anyone navigating identity, service, healing or leadership outside the mold. Welcome to Dog Tag Diaries.

Kim [: 00:01:02

I'm your host, Captain Kim. Our podcast is where military women speak their truths and share the stories that have shaped their lives. From moments of resilience to hard won triumphs, we hold nothing back. 2024 was a year of incredible milestones for this community. Our voice were heard in over 33 countries around the world and we ranked in Apple Podcast's top 200 impersonal journeys in the United States. A testament to the power of authentic storytelling. Now as we launch season four, we invite you to journey with us once again. This is more than a podcast.

Kim [: 00:01:47

This is a movement. Let's break barriers, shatter silence and amplify the voices of military women everywhere. Thank you for listening, sharing and making this possible. This is Dog Tag Diaries. Dr. Jamie Lusk is a clinical psychologist, consultant and former Marine Corps logistics officer who served during Operation Iraqi Freedom. She is a nationally recognized expert in trauma focused therapies and moral injury and has dedicated her career to helping veterans and other high risk populations heal from the invisible wounds of war.

Kim [: 00:02:35

Dr. Lusk is known for her fierce compassion, her innovative approach to treatment, and her unwavering commitment to empowering her clients to reclaim their lives and find purpose beyond trauma. Dr. Jamie Lusk, thank you so much for being on Dog Tag Diaries.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:02:53

I'm excited to be here. I know Captain Kim because I got to participate in one of the reveling retreat events and I came in a little cynical, just not wanting to be a joiner and it was just so lovely, authentic connection and a really top notch experience. And I was just brought back to that experience this week. I was working with a veteran who said your last experience she got to participate in really was a life changer for her, was a catalyst for genuine community that has kept going since the retreat. So really powerful experiences Captain Kim is putting out there in the world for women veterans.

Kim [: 00:03:38

Oh gosh Jamie, thank you for that. It's so beautiful to hear because as you know, all the preparation and everything can get tiresome when you don't have that full team built yet because we're still relatively new. But once you go to the retreats and you see this military women community being built, it's so important, and it just makes everything that you've just worked for so worth it. And I want to talk about how we met. And like you were saying, we met at the All Ladies Ride Revelation retreat project retreat. And I remember you because you were a bit hesitant. I remember seeing you and I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I just wanted to come up and give you a huge hug.

Kim [: 00:04:24

But like every most women, they're very hesitant because it's so foreign, I believe, to us to, because of our military experience, come together and believe that we can lean on one another and support one another.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:04:41

I think it's probably different reasons for everyone. I do think women in general often have a lot of responsibilities they're saddled with in terms of supporting people interpersonally. So I think for me, it was more just like, nah, I'm good. I don't need anybody else to on me for anything. I see that with moms and women who are. Maybe they've got careers, they're helping their parents, they're helping their kids. There's just often more responsibilities socially put on women and the same amount of responsibilities with all the other things. So.

Kim [: 00:05:16

Yeah. Well, how was the icebreaker for you? Do you remember what our icebreaker exercise was?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:05:23

Remind me. I can't remember.

Kim [: 00:05:24

It was the cold hot therapy. Contrast therapy.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:05:31

Actually Ice breaking. Yes. Yes. Well, I think that is a good reminder of just how there is something unique about the population of women veterans. There's just a lot of grit and willingness to kind of showcase the grit. So we're all trying to stay in the cold water the longest and act the least spaced. So that was. That was fun to see us doing that performative icebreaker.

Kim [: 00:06:00

Well, your thoughts are so interesting to me because I always feel like you. Not always, but most of the time feel like you come in with this lens of being a psychologist because that's your background. And we will get into that, but we want to HEAR how, like, Dr. Jamie started as this little girl.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:06:17

Yeah. I grew up in the suburbs of. Outside of Spokane, and then we moved to the country in Oregon. And I have a sister. She's two and a half years younger than me. And it was always pretty clear that I needed to perform in school and perform. I showed horses Perform at horse showing. But I also was just a really dorky kid.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:06:43

I loved riding my bike and getting lost in the woods. And I had this dog, and the dog would ride in my basket, and we just spent tons of time alone, just wandering around. I had a paper route. There was this logistical problem of trying to have the papers on me, throw the papers, not have the dog fall out of the basket. So it didn't always work out. When I think back to it, I was just kind of like a little derpy derpy kid that just liked to be sure and maybe pretty spaced out and reflective, kind of in my own little world.

Kim [: 00:07:18

Well, getting to know you, I feel like that followed you because now I can see you on the bike. Your love for bikes, and, like, you're such an animal lover. I love that you're so drawn to dogs and animals.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:07:34

Yeah, yeah. And I think. I mean, maybe this draws into something. I really appreciate working with veterans because a lot of times when veterans are coming, to me, something terrible happened. They experienced trauma, and it really feels like it was their fault that they failed. Maybe they failed to do something. They failed to protect themselves or someone else. And I think that a big part of healing is often just reconnecting.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:08:02

So trauma dissociates us, and re-associating is part of the work of healing. So whether that's nature or animals or each other, finding those places where we can experience belonging, and that goes back to your retreat. It's one more place that people can remember. It's possible to reconnect.

Kim [: 00:08:22

Yeah, I love that you said that, because I think we underestimate how powerful, really healthy, beautiful connections are, how important community is. But like you said, like, after you've been through the military and have been morally compromised and there's just some trust issues, it's really hard to come back into that type of community and feel like you can trust. We tend to isolate and get depressed, and then the next thing you know, we're taking our lives, which is just horrific for me because, I mean, I've been there, and so I understand. However, gosh, if we can just, like, help me out. You're there.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:09:05

Well, I think you're right. There is some courage that is necessary to trust one more time.

Kim [: 00:09:11

Yeah, trust. I like that. Trust one more time.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:09:14

And I also think the stakes are lower, so you have to let that in. Like, it's not that in the Marine Corps and the army and in the service, some mistakes kill. You make a mistake, people die. Some mistakes expose you to some of the Worst things that a human can experience. But most of the time, when we're rebuilding trust outside, we can start small. Like, you trust this person to spend the weekend with them. That's not going to kill you. The stakes are much slower.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:09:44

So we get to build trust and ourselves another in a graduated way. We've talked about surfing. One thing I like about it is it's literally graduated on the Oregon coast. It's a. It's a beach break. So you really can risk as far as you want to on this graduated slope of difficulty. And so that piece is important. I think, as we're mustering the courage to get back out there, that we have a way of doing in a very systematic, graduated way.

Kim [: 00:10:11

Ooh, I like that. I like that. And let's talk about. Since we were on the military, let's talk about how you've discovered the military.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:10:22

My dad went to the Air Force Academy for two years, and he met my mom in Colorado Springs. So I knew about the Air Force Academy and the Naval Academy in West Point. And frankly, I didn't know what I wanted to do or who I wanted to be when I was a kid. And I did know I wanted to be independent. That was the one thing I was sure about. I wanted to leave home at 18 and not depend on my parents. So, oddly, the academy was my best shot at that. So I applied to all the military academies and I got in.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:10:48

And the Naval Academy in West Point. And it was a chance to be basically immediately independent. I wouldn't need money, I wouldn't need any kind of assistance. So I could be on my own. I could figure out how to adult on my own. So I got into. I went to the Naval Academy and.

Kim [: 00:11:06

Yeah, how did you choose that over West Point?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:11:09

I just liked the location. It seemed kind of whimsical, you know, right there on the Chesapeake Bay. I could learn to sail. I could learn to do some things in the water. Interestingly, I did end up. I guess I'm pausing because there's something I think West Point has done better for women. I think that they've done a better job in many ways. I think the army has done better in many ways at integrating and making spaces for women.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:11:35

So if I were to have that on my radar, maybe I would have thought through that a little differently.

Kim [: 00:11:40

Interesting. How so?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:11:42

Well, I hate speaking for the current situation because, you know, I'm old now. I'm 45. So I participated in the military a while ago. But I think just what I saw at West Point, it Felt like the cadets, the female cadets were better supported and integrated into the community of the school. There's some strange things at the Naval Academy were right there in town though. As a female midshipman, there's just a lot of second class citizen stuff where it was like, it's pretty horrible. But they were called Lubas when I was there. Women with unusually big butts or women used by all.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:12:21

So very derogatory. But women were called that. And I'm sure that's changed some, but it was just kind of this idea of like if you were dating someone, dating a townie was way cooler. Don't date a female midshipman. That was bad. That was seen as, oh, you're desperate, you're dating a female midshipman. There's just things like that that I think wouldn't happen at West Point because it's much more isolated as a community. So the community of West Point cadets, they were more in solidarity at least when I visited and saw them.

Kim [: 00:12:53

And you're right, exposure is key. Like that does play a key role.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:12:57

Yeah. So that was a weird aspect. Gosh. The most important things of the Naval Academy is academics and athletics. So I was fine there. I wasn't like, I didn't struggle at the Naval Academy, but when I left there and became a Marine officer, other things mattered. So I struggled some in the Marine Corps. Yeah.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:13:16

It was a pretty rude awakening When I was the Marine. I also graduated May of 2001. So before 9 11. And so when I graduated, I was like a peacetime Marine officer and then shortly afterwards was a Marine officer at war. So that was not that I didn't expect to serve in a war because that's why we joined, to prepare for something like that, but certainly an unexpected, immediate entry into that.

Kim [: 00:13:44

Yeah. Are you ready to talk about that? The transition of going from peacetime to wartime and being a woman and going over to Iraq and leading a company and all of that.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:13:56

Yeah. The day that 911 happened, I went on a mountain bike ride because I thought, I'm not going to get to do this for a really long time. So I'm just going to get this in while I can. I did go over to Iraq when we first went over in January 2003. We did know at the time that we had not found weapons of mass destruction. So that was morally conflicting for me. I had a platoon of Marines and I was tasked with unloading. They're called maritime Pre Positioning Force ships.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:14:30

So the reason that the Marines can be in war first is we have a battalion worth of equipment floating out on these civilian ships. So these maritime pre positioning force are ready to fall into a port, unload, and then rains can fly in and be on the gear. So I was in charge of unloading all those ships and then did some stuff logistically on a few bases, and then I was in charge of getting those ships reloaded again. So I didn't thrive as a platoon commander. And partly it was maybe some naivety, partly I wanted to have a more collaborative style to find out how these 40 people work together and how we could play on everybody's strengths. And that is not the Marine Corps hierarchy. If you ask what people's opinions are, that's seen as extremely weak. So I did end up giving my Marines the Myers Briggs at war.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:15:28

And that was interesting. Most of the people in the platoon were concrete thinkers, thinkers rather than feelers and judgers rather than receivers. So STJs, and the few that weren't were very moved by this. Like, wow, this makes so much sense. This is why I struggle. And then the rest of the platoon was like, oh, my gosh, those personalities suck. We hate those personalities. Miss, are you one of those personalities? I was like, don't worry about it.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:15:57

You just worry about yourself. That was interesting to me, just to realize, well, there's a fit problem here with me, really, and some of my other Marines. And that fit problem could lead to a lot of shame and mistakes that really aren't allowed to be made. But it doesn't make this person any less valuable. It's just. It's a fit problem. I mean, a perfect example would be I'm. I'm not detail oriented, and I literally still have nightmares that my uniform is wrong, that something is out of place, the missing insignia, and I'm rushing around.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:16:31

I can't find it. So this is like a nightmare that still happens. And it is true that inspections are really hard for me to pass. So not the best for a Marine officer. It is good to expect your Marine officers to be detail oriented.

Kim [: 00:16:45

Yeah. But I love that you were so aware of that.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:16:49

Yeah. Too aware. Right. It was the definite source of shame and fear. But now it doesn't matter. I mean, like, I'm not super detail oriented in life, and the stakes are much lower. So yay for me. And that's a lot of times when I'm working with a vet in front of me.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:17:05

I had a vet yesterday who just quickly spirals into panic and feeling like a failure. And we were able to narrow down that this person just really hates being in charge of people. And that's okay. You get to just not like that. And you could tailor your life around not having to do that anymore. So we had a really lovely conversation about fit.

Kim [: 00:17:26

I love that you're in that position because when I first met you, you were super easy to talk to. And even to this day, we just had like an hour, two hour conversation, like a few days ago. And you're super easy and you really neutralize things. And after I got off the phone with you, I was like, oh, my gosh. Yeah, like, put all this into perspective because our minds are powerful tools. Like you said, they can spiral quickly, get triggered and spiral quickly. So I love that you were able to take that role. Let me ask you, what did you study in the Naval Academy? Because they only have certain curriculum.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:18:07

Math. So I got my undergrad in math, which again, I don't know. I just don't know why. Even now I'm, like, barely able to do some basic math. It's just not at all how I'm wired. But I just did. I don't know. I think like many young people, sometimes we don't realize all the possibilities that are available to us.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:18:29

So it didn't occur to me some of the choices.

Kim [: 00:18:31

Yeah, so you studied math, but you knew human dynamics. Human behavior was huge. So, like, almost innately, because like you said, you were like, oh, let's do the Meyer Briggs test.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:18:46

I also did something really stupid. I gave my Marines Valentine's because I felt like, oh, they won't get Valentine's. It's Valentine's Day. They won't get Valentine's. It's war. It was just a really stupid idea. I mean, why did I do that? I regret that.

Kim [: 00:19:02

What did they think?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:19:03

They thought it was so stupid. I mean, maybe there. I think so. I think so. Just like, oh, my gosh, did you.

Kim [: 00:19:11

Get a smile out of one or two of them?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:19:13

It's possible, but I think if I had it to do over again, I wouldn't have done that. Just like, chill out, girl. Just try to fit in here. Yes, I had to.

Kim [: 00:19:23

Yeah. Try to fit in. Let's talk about that.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:19:27

Yeah, I mean, it's true that the milk military needs conformity. That again, when we're talking about fit, like, the point of the military is to act as a team and be predictable. And the trust that's built in the military is based on the belief that the person next to you has the same training and conditioning and in a crisis is going to behave in A predictable way. That's really what the trust is. So you conformity is critical. And as someone who isn't great at that, there are ways that I was untrustworthy person next to me, that if I can't be predictable and relied upon to act as my training has taught me, then that introduces an element of distrust. So I get that. And I maybe was extra paranoid about that, but it didn't make it easier for me to show up in a conforming, precise way.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:20:24

So, yeah, I mean, I think that's another thing. We brought up trust, and it's such a big deal healing from trauma. I think it's really important to look at how dimensional trust is, so how nobody is trustworthy in every way. But how is this person in front of you trustworthy in the ways that you need in this moment and really being able to sort that out. I wouldn't trust me to like, take care of details, but I think I would trust me to. To, like you said, look at all sides of the situation or help you work through shame or, you know, show up and move rocks for you. I can do all those things.

Kim [: 00:21:01

Yes. And that's so important to know. And then you went into that career. What led you into psychology?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:21:09

Well, after the Marine Corps, I was asking some of the big questions. Why are we here? What do we owe our fellow man? Like, what's the point of our lives? So I went to seminary first, and that was just like opening up more questions and has its own culture of conformity. I will say there was a lot of things I couldn't get behind there as well. Just like, wow, I don't buy this, or, what if I don't believe this? What does that mean about me? Well, in a seminary, people have ideas about what that means about you. So I left there with more questions than answers, and I still had some in my GI Bill. So I really, literally, on a whim, applied for a doctoral program in psychology and got in. And so that was the path. And then equally randomly ended up dating a guy whose mom worked at the VA.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:21:59

And I never thought I'd go back. I never thought I'd work with veterans. I didn't love my experience, so I didn't want to recreate it in any way. But what I found is a lot of veterans who are seeking care are asking some of the same questions I was about maybe violated values or ways that they lost trust in themselves and others, or ways that they wanted to experience the world differently. So what I love is I got to see in The VA that the vets that are seeking care were not different than me in many ways. So that was super powerful. And I got there in 2010, and I haven't left. I worked at the Denver VA from 2010 to 2014, and then I went to the Portland VA from 2014 to 2019, and then I've been in the vet center since then.

Kim [: 00:22:52

And do you feel it's because you found that commonality where you felt so much stress in the job that you were like, this does not feel like it aligns with who I am, and now you have found something?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:23:05

Yeah. So this is sort of an example. I have this Chief Warrant Officer 5 who I was really good friends with when I was in the Marine Corps, and he really took care of me and helped me do some things to prepare at some point. I was the training officer for my battalion, and it was a logistics battalion, so we didn't have some of the allocations of ammunition and trainers that the division had. So he was the chief warrant officer for the whole division, and he would just reallocate division resources over to us. So we had ample equipment and ammunition and training allocations so I could train people for the next wave of people going over. So that was a point of pride when I was in the Marine Corps. Is being able to prepare my unit better than other units who are also support units had the opportunity to do? But this Chief Warrant Officer Fio, he deployed 20 times at least.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:23:56

And at one point he called me and he was like, Jamie, is there such a thing as PTSD Is that just made up? I'm just like, what are you talking about, Gunner? Of course, if you're not made up, where did you get this? And he's just like, well, I don't understand. It's not that big of a deal. The people in the Middle east are making bombs out of developmentally disabled people, and we're just trying to stop them. And it's just like, wow, that's all you've taken from your many deployments, Gunner? I think you might have missed some of the nuances there.

Kim [: 00:24:25

But if you don't know what to look for, if you've never experienced it, if you don't know what to look for, you're just like, what is happening to my mind and body?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:24:33

Yeah, exactly. So that would be an example of somebody who doesn't struggle, but also is maybe not taking in some of the nuance of the experience. So I think that's a piece that I'm very aware of, is it's sort of an equation. So if you think about the level of coping skills you have versus the level of, I guess, problems you're trying to solve in the world. So my gunner, I don't think he has extreme coping skills, but he also isn't trying to solve a lot of problems in the world. He's really not taking in a ton of data. So good for him. He's not drowning.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:25:05

But then a lot of vets I work with, it's just they are. They're taking in a lot of the pain of the world. They are hoping to make sense of a large amount of data, so they need even more coping skills. So it's like they're. The problems they're taking on and the ways they're trying to think through the world, they need even more coping skills than maybe the average person. So I think that's cool. Just to see. Just because you're drowning doesn't mean you're doing something wrong or you're not as good as the gunner.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:25:35

It could mean actually that you're taking in quite a bit of data and you just need more to cope with it all.

Kim [: 00:25:42

I love how you just explained all that well.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:25:44

Thank you.

Kim [: 00:25:45

You're welcome. That just really started the wheels turning in my mind too, and I believe, like, it will for, like, a lot of the listeners as well. Because how you introduced all that was just, I mean, at least for me, I was like, oh, my gosh, that's right. Like my coping and the amount of information I take in and no wonder, no wonder I get triggered and spiral and what about you? Like, what type of person are you? Do you take in a lot of information and what are your coping skills?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:26:15

When I was younger, I was constantly drowning. I'm really truly, like, always dealing with some existential despair at an early age. Taking in a lot of, like, the pain of the world, trying to understand why people in third world countries had so many less choices and so many less resources and why aren't we doing things about these people? I went to Papua New guinea when I was 16 on a mission trip and it was just kind of like pretty early exposure to some of the inequities of the world. Went to Cameroon when I was 18. Similarly, they're producing a lot of the world's cacao. They're harvesting a lot of the cacao, but most people have never tasted chocolate and are living off like $30 a day. So just this huge inequity and so really trying to figure those things out and then joining the Marine Corps and trying to figure out how we're enemies with this in that country. And yet they seem like people and how do we put those things together? I think that what I Learned through my 20s, I had a really good mentor who wasn't my counselor, but he sort of acted as a counselor.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:27:19

And he used to always tell me two things. Jamie, stop being mean to Jamie. I don't like it. And then he would say, Jamie, you get the love that you allow. You got to let the love. Then you get the love that you allow. So these are two things. Throughout my 20s I just heard a thousand times, and I think that kind of turned the corner slowly but surely to where I could keep my head above water, psychologically speaking.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:27:41

And then revelation. Maybe in my 30s I figured out feelings and needs and I could tell what I was feeling and then what that feeling was telling me about what I was needing. I know, crazy. And since then I largely am able to manage sort of without feeling overwhelmed. But I will tell you, I interviewed for the CIA this summer. And in the interview they asked, what do you do when you get overwhelmed? And I said, oh, I don't really get overwhelmed. It's been a really long time. And it had been so I wasn't lying.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:28:13

But then right after that, I got in a pretty significant mountain bike wreck and I broke my leg and my non dislocated brake and then I tore my TCL. But then I had to immediately fly out to D.C. and do polygraphs for the CIA and I was abysmal. I cried through the whole thing. Just like at one point the polygrapher was like, I'm not a priest, stop telling me everything. Like they originally they were digging for all the dirt and then at some point I gave them too much and they're just like, stop, I don't need any more. I'm not your priest. So anyway, it was like, be careful what you say, right? You don't get overwhelmed.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:28:52

Well, clearly you are now, girl.

Kim [: 00:28:54

Oh my gosh. Did you think it was like a platform form for you to like your therapy session?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:29:00

Well, not at all. If you've ever done it, it's really tricky. They break you in little ways, you know. So at first I was like, don't give them anything that extra. Just chill, just stick to the script. But the first thing they did was just like, hey, stop trying to control this test by breathing. If you do that, you'll automatically fail. And I'm like, well, I'm not trying to do anything.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:29:21

And now I'm overthinking my breathing. They're like, well, you're still doing it, so they're kind of trying to push on your buttons. So it wasn't like I spilled the beans completely with no provocation. They have their ways of getting to you first.

Kim [: 00:29:35

Yeah. And you were just in a significant, like you said, mountain biking accident. Don't you think that's one of your coping mechanisms or releases?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:29:44

Yeah, for sure. And I think, yeah, just physically compromised. Made a bigger impact than I realized on my mental and emotional resources. I was limping around the CIA place, you know, just like this pathetic character, sweating profusely. So anyway, like, I guess all that to say, of course I still get overwhelmed. I won't ever say that in the interview again.

Kim [: 00:30:08

Lesson learned. Check.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:30:12

But far less. Far less. And I think it's some of those things I learned about managing my shame and showing myself compassion and being able to know what I'm feeling and know what I'm needing. And then also shut down a little bit. Like, I don't know, I have this image of the moon. You know, how the moon waxes and wanes. And like, sometimes I'm closed for business. That's okay.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:30:34

I can kind of retreat a lot better than I used to and decide when I am just not able to take in all the stuff that somebody might want to give me.

Kim [: 00:30:44

Jamie, I love how real you are. I just want to let you know I know you live with you every day, so you're used to you, but really, just talking to you more and more, I realize how real you are and how accepting you are of yourself. And then sometimes you're not, and you need to figure that out. I love the closed for business. We need to get pins.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:31:08

Yeah. Like, sorry, out of order. Yeah.

Kim [: 00:31:14

Well, speaking of, I have to transition into this because it's so interesting to me because you were in. In Disney World jail.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:31:25

Disneyland jail. Yeah, I did go there. Yeah.

Kim [: 00:31:28

Disneyland jail, which I think of, like, all the villains, Cruella and the Big Bad Wolf. Yeah. And so what got you into there?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:31:39

Well, so it was Disneyland. I was down there with my friends when we were 18, and I think too boring of a place for 18 year olds. So we were there for like, four days, and day three, we were just like, out of ideas. And there's these cute boys I was trying to show off for, and my friends were there, and we were going on Pirates of the Caribbean, and I said, oh, hey, I'm gonna get off this ride and pretend to be a pirate. So we were on the boat with them. I got off on the docks. I had Harmonica, and I was kind of trying to be this mechanical pirate. And the boats would pass, and people would say, like, wow, that one kind of looks real and isn't really dressed like a pirate.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:32:18

That one's weird. And then I might scare him or something. But then eventually, maybe like a half an hour later, the boat stopped coming by, which was a bad sign. And then the lights came on. Yeah. And then there's an elf that came out of the scenery and arrested me and then took me through tunnels to the jail in Disneyland. So they had me in custody, and they told me I had to call my parents, which, what dummy actually calls their parents? But I did like, oh, okay. So I called my parents, and of course, my mom was furious, and my dad was like, oh, that's awesome.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:32:55

She got into Disneyland jail, which I think speaks to an odd, troubling combination I have where I'm both sort of intrepid and courageous and neurotic. So I got my mom's neuroses and my dad's courage, and the mix is hard to manage, I think. So I was in Disneyland jail, and my friends were crying because at that point they realized the ride had closed, and so they had me for, like, five hours. And my friends were crying in the lobby, and, you know, we didn't know how bad the consequences were going to be. They said, oh, if you scratch the ride, you're going to owe, like, $5,000 and you could go to real jail. But then after that, they just let us go and we went into Disneyland the next day. So the very low. In the end, they're just trying to scare us.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:33:42

Kids.

Kim [: 00:33:45

You talk about the complexity of having both of your parents, but it does lead to. To great stories. Like, how many people can say they were in Disneyland jail.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:33:55

Yeah. Not that many. And like I said, my mom's mortified and my dad's proud. So there you go. That's the biggest difference between my parents. So I got a little bit of both of them inside. And, yeah, I think, as most of us, those contradictions inside of us rub together long enough maybe to make a little fire. And that's where some of our light is.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:34:17

Those contradictions that rub together for long enough.

Kim [: 00:34:21

Yeah. And interestingly enough, it can get us into some deep water. Fortunately for you, it was only five hours in Disneyland and you just had to call your parents and you didn't owe all that money.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:34:34

Yeah, it's true. That's a really good point. I will say that, like, I think my life largely has had enough trouble to be inoculating, but not so much that it took me down. Right. So bad things have happened to me and I've put myself in situations that were pretty high risk that I had consequences for. But at the same time, I know each of those. I got lucky and the truly terrible consequences did not take place, which I feel like was not based on my own merits. It really was.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:35:07

I really feel like what allows me to do this job with humility, which is like, I'm really lucky. I got inoculated, I got humbled, but I didn't have to face the full brunt of some of the consequences that can happen.

Kim [: 00:35:20

Well, you do amazing work, and I want to talk about Headstrong Foundation.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:35:28

Any veteran out there that wants care, I can talk through options because I have had a foot in just about everything, the VA Vet center and now Head Strong Project. So right now I do work full time at the Portland Vet center. And that model is largely once a month individual, and we help you find groups that fit. Headstrong Project is nonprofit that offers evidence based PTSD treatment up to 30 sessions for free for veterans who have PTSD. So they're available in many states. I'm licensed in both Idaho and Oregon, so I could see somebody through Headstrong in both those states. If you just look it up, the Head Strong Project and you're interested, do you want to do some PTSD treatment? You can do 30 sessions for free. So that's a really cool way to get treatment alternative to the VA and the Vet Center.

Kim [: 00:36:15

Oh, wow. Okay. We'll have that in the show notes. And then because we're getting close to the end of our session, we would love to know, what advice would you give to military women that are in or have already transitioned out?

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:36:35

Well, I struggled a little bit with this question just because I have worked with so many amazing women that have had horrific experiences. And that isn't everyone. In fact, it's probably only statistically maybe a third of women, and so 2/3 of women are maybe having great experiences and finding places where they can serve and finding respect and camaraderie. But I do think it's an occupational hazard that women face in the military that there's still really high levels of sexual harassment. There's really high levels of military sexual trauma. And then I think undermining and disrespect is still prevalent. Unfortunately, even without that, it's hard to have the experience of being one of the guys and really feeling Fully the camaraderie of the band of brothers. And that said, I think that's why rebellion retreat is so important and other places where women can connect to each other.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:37:31

It is a fire that forges amazing women. I've got Pierre, who went to West Point and is now command psychologist of the war College in D.C. i still get together and surf with my Marine Corps boss. She's got a friend who's this badass general in the Marine Corps. So there's these women out there that I guarantee you have been forged in fire and have so much moral courage and beauty. And we get to know these women, and that is a privilege. And men, too. I am still moved to tears when I think about the individuals I met in the Marine Corps who didn't even like me but would die for me.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:38:10

They don't even like me, but they'd be willing to live, like, lay down their life for me. That brings me to tears. I've had boyfriends who supposedly love me and wouldn't make the sacrifice to make this month's rent for me. So when I think about the contrast, it's vast. And so we do see so much moral beauty in that setting. And being able to develop those relationships is an honor.

Kim [: 00:38:35

Yeah. That is so powerful. All the stuff that you said is so powerful. And especially like, you saying, like, not all women had a tough time, and I think they're important in that whole community as well to help the women who did have a tough time. And I love that you're still connected to all those women. And I want to thank you so much for taking time to be on Dog Tag Diaries. Jamie. Word that keeps coming to mind for me is when I think of you is real.

Kim [: 00:39:05

Like, you even write down like, you were a quirky kid. And like, the awareness of who you are and what you have to give to the world is just gorgeous. Like, you make a difference. Like I said, I remember meeting you for the first time, and it is just, I can't wait to learn more about you. You went from, like, that quirky kid delivering newspapers and hoping the dog wasn't retrieving them to going to one of the most prestigious academies to really following who you were, going from math to psychology. And now you're in this place where you thrive, which is making people around you thrive. So I thank you for being so real and being you.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:39:49

I feel the same about you. You're the most authentically enthusiastic person I've met, and I think you're really, truly enthusiastic about nearly everyone you meet, which I think is. Unless you meet Captain Kim, you wouldn't believe it because it'd just be suspicious. I think, like, nobody's that enthusiastic, but she really is, and it's really fun to be around you.

Kim [: 00:40:09

Oh.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:40:10

So I appreciate this.

Kim [: 00:40:11

Well, thank you. Yes. Well, that's because, like you, my core belief is we're all put on this earth to help one another. So I'm always like, when I come in contact with someone, I'm always like, oh, what does this mean? What. What are we going to create? Or is this just going to be like a. Oh, hey, we just exchanged some energy. Well, I'm excited to chat with you more offline. And I'm excited to come surf with you.

Kim [: 00:40:38

You'll have to teach me how to do more than just white water surf.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:40:42

Mm.

Kim [: 00:40:43

Yeah.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:40:44

Yeah.

Kim [: 00:40:44

You're truly amazing, Dr. Jamie. Thank you again.

Jaimie Lusk [: 00:40:48

Well, thanks for having me.

Kim [: 00:40:52

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Dog Tag Diaries, where military women speak their truth and share their true stories. Every story told here is a step towards understanding, healing and connection. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. And remember, your voice matters. Together, we're building a community that empowers, uplifts and inspires. Stay connected with us. Follow Dog Tag Diaries. Leave a review and let's continue to amplify the voices of women warriors around the world.

Kim [: 00:41:30

Your voice matters. Share your thoughts and reviews to help us grow, improve, and continue making an impact. Until next time, stay strong, stay true, and keep sharing your story.