Beyond Resilience: Elizabeth Estabrooks Returns to Deepen the Conversation on Military Trauma and Recovery -37

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Kim [: 00:00:04

In part two of our conversation with Elizabeth Estabrooks, we shift our focus to her powerful new book and the journey ahead. Broken in the From Resilience to Resourcefulness isn't just a memoir. It's a call to action, an analysis of how women survivors of violence navigate retraumatization and a testament to resilience. Elizabeth is hitting the road on a national book tour starting on March 18, and she needs your help. Tune in to find out how you can support her mission, bring her to the community, and be part of the movement to amplify women's voices and stories. Reach out at elizabeth@awoman'svoicepress.com. Welcome to Dog Tag Diaries. I'm your host, Captain Kim.

Kim [: 00:00:57

Our podcast is where military women speak their truths and share the stories that have shaped their lives. From moments of resilience to hard won triumphs, we hold nothing back. Twenty twenty four was a year of incredible milestones for this community. Our voices were heard in over 33 countries around the world, and we ranked in Apple Podcast's top 200 in personal journeys in The United States, a testament to the power of authentic storytelling. Now as we launch season four, we invite you to journey with us once again. This is more than a podcast. This is a movement. Let's break barriers, shatter silence, and amplify the voices of military women everywhere.

Kim [: 00:01:48

Thank you for listening, sharing, and making this possible. This is Dog Tag Diaries. I'm getting teary eyed. I hear everything you're saying and, like, our stories are so similar. And just you providing that statement, just saying, what do I need to hear from you allows you to be seen and heard for far too often. You're not. Once you start talking about that, you do start realizing because much like you, I was a single mom. I was in the medical field.

Kim [: 00:02:30

You were always taking care of something except yourself. There was no time, and maybe we didn't wanna see it. I don't know. I don't know what the real issue was, but having you there say that comment to women is so powerful to them. So, yes, it's bringing tears to my eyes because for a long time, I didn't realize I had PTS or MSC. So because I was so busy,

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:03:00

What you're doing with your busyness and your children and your work and your, you're putting lacquer and gold over the top of all your broken places. I spent thirty years doing that. So I could sit in that chair and say, tell me what I need to know to help you. I was the one I did with my family. I did it with my friends. I did it with women. I didn't know. And I spent thirty years hearing some of the most brutal stuff men are capable of.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:03:27

One of my sisters said, how do you not cry when you're hearing these stories? And I said, because it's not my turn. I had to learn basically to flatline. Like, one of my first stories was my mother. We were driving, and she started telling me about the sexual assault she endured from the age of nine to 15. And I just sat and listened and acknowledged. And when she got done, she apologized. And by this time, I had entered the field of domestic violence and sexual assault, and I said, mother, you have nothing to apologize for. I just knew instinctively that if I had started crying, my mom would have stopped talking and she needed to tell me that story.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:04:04

And so that carried me through my career, the knowledge that because especially as women, what do we do if if if we're saying something and somebody starts crying, we stop talking because we feel bad that we made them cry. And so I understood that for the duration of my career, I can't cry. I can't show any emotion. I can't show shock or horror or sadness. I could make empathetic sounds and comments, but that was it. And so I spent thirty years shoving all of it. I had to do work. I've had to do school.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:04:39

I had two kids to take care of. I had work to do. I didn't have time to be not okay. And to look at my experiences and say, that was pretty fucked up.

Kim [: 00:04:52

Yeah.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:04:54

So my life was spent applying lacquer and gold. And if something started to chip away, I just put more lacquer and more gold. When I talk to women veterans who talk about the fact that they go into their, their C and P exam and they, they look nice. Oftentimes they're denied because they're they look put together. And, you know, and I always tell people my lacquer and my gold was an a nice suit, nice makeup, perfectly coiffed hair, good nails, but being articulate, all of that was my lacquer in gold because I had to say I'm fine. I had to be okay. And so that was what I spent my life doing. The last probably five years, I could feel things starting to get to me.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:05:33

In 02/2016, '1 of my good friends, who was also a veteran service officer in Oregon, he was working on a claim, a secondary claim for me for my legs or legs or something. I don't know. And he said, I want to talk to you about something else, but we want we I want to add to the claim. And they said, okay. And he said military sexual trauma. I was like, I don't have military sexual trauma. He said, well, okay. Let's talk about that, Liz.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:05:59

And he was a kind, wonderful man, and he was an expert on military sexual trauma. And he got me through that. They approved my diagnosis. And my sister, Rita, who had been sort of my soft place to land for years, I had called her when I was working on my claim, and I said, I need to ask you a question. I said, can you write me a letter? Because I had told her everything that she knew it. We are sitting tapes back and forth. She knew my experiences, and she said, I'll write you a letter. I'll write you that, like, what we call a buddy letter.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:06:31

She gave me space to be not okay, but she never asked me to share anything that I couldn't share. In 02/2021, she died from COVID. She died in October, and then in May, a young woman that I cherish, I learned she had been raped. And when that happened, I sort of had a an moment because I realized that it didn't matter that she was one of the more precious things in my life. I didn't cry. I had done such a good job that I couldn't even express emotion when someone that special to me had been harmed so severely. And I thought, that's not normal. I actually mentioned it to my counselor, and she said, yeah.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:07:14

You have, like, learned how to suppress your emotions over these years. So sister dies in October, person gets raped. I thought about May. My mom died in, like, June or July. This is by this time we're into '22. Then in August, I heard a story from a woman. It was one of the most brutal stories I had ever I even when I hung up, I thought, how did she even live? And how has she continued to live since? And that's resilience. And so I could feel myself starting to crumble because for one thing, when Rita died, it was like all of a sudden I realized that this person who had been the reservoir for all of my pain and all the bad shit that happened to me and who had intervened when I came home to keep people from asking me.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:08:00

I started thinking about it. I thought, what did she do with that? I asked her to hold onto this package for me, and then I never asked her if she was okay holding that package. So I struggled with that for a really long time. And so I was literally starting to crumble and shit was going sideways at work. Things were falling apart at the center and with the administration. And I was becoming more and more aware that they really didn't give a damn about women veterans. My integrity was being rubbed raw, and I just couldn't anymore. And in September, I was on a Zoom call and a hit leave meeting and never came back.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:08:33

I kind of snapped. I think I I'm pretty sure I have a nervous breakdown, but one of my buddies, my veteran women veteran buddies got me through it. And this is where the resourcefulness part comes in. I knew that I had to do something. I was talking to a therapist, like, on a weekly basis. She was really helping me. And she said to me, she said, you had your own trauma from youth and from your time in the military. And then you went into social justice and that field that was so harmful to you.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:09:02

And you have listened to stories for so long. This is a part of your trauma. You can never hear another story, Liz. You just simply have to save yourself. You can't do this work anymore ever again. When I was in Texas when I was on my trip, I was in a meeting, and some woman started talking. And I just I could feel the panic setting in because I knew what she was gonna talk about, because I had so much awareness that I could tell when a woman was getting ready to tell her story. And I just went into this full blown panic.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:09:32

I left my job in September. On October 30, I signed my papers to leave the VA. And in November, during that time, I was getting rid of everything in my apartment. They sold my Subaru. I bought a Dodge coach house, camper van, and I was just gonna leave. I was like, I just gotta go. I don't know. I just gotta go.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:09:50

I gotta go. I gotta go. But that's all I knew was I had to go because I could just feel all of the gold and lacquer just crumbling off of me. I was a hot mess. My swim at he had always I had always been the strong one. I got rid of everything. I made really bad decisions. To the listeners, don't make decisions when you're in crisis because not make good decisions when you're in crisis.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:10:17

It is so funny because in my book, I was talking about my what I called my escape from DC. In my mind, it was so cold. I kept thinking it's so cold. I gotta get warm. I have to go someplace where I might need some sunshine. But when I look back on it, the temperatures during that time were like fifty, fifty five degrees. It wasn't cold. It was me.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:10:34

I headed south on I 95. I stopped in Atlanta to see if it but I was so unaware of what I was doing. I was so broken. And I remember thinking for about a month, it was like, there's traffic. Oh, there's a cop. Oh, there's a tree. Oh, there's the ocean. And I love the ocean.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:10:51

It's one of my favorite places ever is to be at the ocean. But I had no emotion. I was just like, it was all just awareness of what was there. Sometimes I was I was I would be like, oh, look, it's 03:00. I have to stop. And so and my poor dog, Beyonce, she would just was constantly hugging me. And I was like, this poor dog needs her own, like, emotional support animal because I wouldn't turn her out. After about a month, it was like all of a sudden I became a little more I started snapping at it.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:11:19

Like, people would say, what are you doing? And I would say, I'm escaping from DC. That was how I in my mind and in my soul, I was escaping from this really awful thing. So I just kept driving. That trip was healing for me. And I started writing in January. So now we're into January 2023. I started writing my book. I was writing and I was traveling.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:11:40

I put 20,000 miles on my van in ten months. I was gonna go to all the states. My plan, my I was in Kentucky at a wonderful place called Lady Veterans Connect, and it's a good thing I was there because and from there, I was gonna go to Ohio and then to the Northeast. My goal was to visit all 50 states. I went into Baja, but my dog in August died suddenly, and it rocked my world. And I didn't know how I was gonna get through that. I was three days in bed, and the women at the at Lady Veterans Connect probably saved my life. Yeah.

Kim [: 00:12:16

Well, they absorb so much of our trauma. There's so much more comfort and then they pass and you don't know how to be. Exactly.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:12:24

And my co pilot, my best friend, she was there for me at night. She has been had been my comfort. She was only five years old, but I got her because the VA psychologist said, you need a support animal.

Kim [: 00:12:36

Yeah. We will realize how much trauma they absorb. They really do.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:12:42

They really do. And so that was August 27. And then my best friend from high school died the same day. I felt really fortunate because I had just seen her in July and I we hadn't seen each other for a long time and I was so fortunate. And she and Beyonce had bonded. They Lynn was like, if anything happens, you have to let me have let let the man have the dog. And so one of my friends you know, I'm an atheist, but one of my friends said something that helped me. I don't know why in that moment, she said God knew that Lynn needed somebody to be with her.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:13:13

So she said, Beyonce.

Kim [: 00:13:15

Yeah. That has to bring you so much comfort.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:13:18

It did. It actually did. At least even though I'm an atheist, I was like so that was August. And then in October, shit hit the band with my family about my book because I was telling my mom's story. And somebody had started the rumor that I was telling someone else's story, and I said I have no intention of telling this story. And I'm not really telling my mom's story. I'm talking about my mom's story because it was so she was so integrally connected to me and the work that I was doing. And I think if mom were alive, she would want me to talk about that.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:13:52

I think she would give me her blessing. Anyway, from October to February, from October 23 to February 24, I lost. It's like if all these people, you come from this big family and you have all these people that have surrounded you your whole life, and then suddenly six of them are just gone. So it's, it's as if they were all in a car and the car had a flaming accident and they all died at one time. And suddenly you don't have any of these people. I just kept getting, like, it was just one trauma thing after another trauma thing while I was trying to heal. And so way back around to the title, so what I had come to understand, and I talk about this in my book, I talk about from the time I joined the army until the end of my healing journey that I had to do that was my resourcefulness. I talk about the fact that we have all of these triggers as survivors.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:14:44

We have these immense triggers and what the build of mental health, you know, they implemented this phrase. They took broken in the strong stronger in the broken places, and they made that, like almost biblical, like, yes, if you do the work and you go to the training and you go to the therapy and you, and you do all this work, you too will be stronger in your broken places. And I believe that for so long. And then after decades of this work in my own trauma, I realized that we can break in those stronger places that it doesn't matter how much lacquer and gold and all that other crap you do it. There's enough pressure on those stress points. They're going to break, but resilience is what keeps us. Like I was talking about the woman who had this severe, it was her resilience that kept her alive and kept her moving and capture going every day. It's the resourcefulness that helps us get through that, knowing that you have to go and talk to your mom or your best friend, or go to a group, or in my case, get in your van and drive 20,000 miles during that time period, I didn't really tell people say, oh, you must have had so many interesting people.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:15:56

No, no, because my trauma was so raw. I spent almost all my time in my van by myself or walking with my dog alone.

Kim [: 00:16:05

Yeah. Let's go with this because I was just gonna ask you, let's get raw with when you wrote this book, because now you're finally taking time for you. You start with Beyonce, but then she ends up passing. And I can only talk about this because my emotional support camo passed in August. Oh. And you are alone. This is the first time you're by yourself alone. You don't have your kids to raise anymore.

Kim [: 00:16:34

You don't have your job. You are in your van alone with just you. And now you're writing about it. Let's get Rob. What came up? Did you cry a lot? Because you didn't, you, like you said, you spent years not crying.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:16:49

I learned the value of pipe primal screaming when I had to get when I was going from Kentucky, I had made the decision to sell my van. I was like, I can't finish this trip without my dog. I just I don't I can't. So I drove to Virginia. One of my sisters lives in Virginia, one of them still talking to me. And I sold my van. But on the way there, I was just hysterical. And I just started just screaming.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:17:12

I'm in my van driving, and I'm like, you're screaming like draw primal scream. And it actually made me feel better. So I suggest all y'all try it. I was like, wow, that felt good to get that out. You know, she died just almost a year after, like, she was the last in the string of things, But then what happened was I was dealing with that. And in October, on October 2, is when my family started shattering. They were so angry with me, and they were saying these awful things. And I was like, you know what? I have spent a lifetime being there for every one of you.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:17:47

Being what you needed me to be. Being the strong one. Being the one who flew across the country to be there for you when you needed me. And now this one thing, and you're going to turn on me as if I'm the enemy who has never done anything for you. And it was traumatizing. It was really, I'm not gonna lie. It was traumatizing. Yes.

Kim [: 00:18:07

How wonderful would it have been for someone to say to you what you have said to so many other women? Hey. Tell me what you're feeling. Tell me why you're writing this book. Tell me what's going on because there is a change in behavior. Help me understand.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:18:22

Yeah. And I knew and they had started like, I found out they had been doing this whole family thing since June and not telling me. And I could tell because I'm an intuitive person. I was like, are you mad at me? Is there something wrong? And nobody would say anything to me. And then shit hit the fan in October. And then it continued until February 2024. And so I stopped writing, Kim. I had been writing since January, and it was pretty close to done.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:18:44

And I stopped writing. I sold my van in October, and I went to Florida. I was like, again, I need the sun. I need the warm. I need to be someplace peaceful. So I went to Florida and spent three months in Florida, and I my intent was to write. I had this beautiful condo by the water and bay, and my intent was to write. And every time I sat down, I couldn't I could no longer write.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:19:07

And writing has always been my superpower. Always. I'm an excellent writer. Like, they my book only need one developmental edit and one copy edit. That's always been the thing that I've done well, but I couldn't write. I couldn't write anything. I was broken in all my stronger places again. And I was angry, and I was distraught, and I was confused.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:19:27

I was all those things. And so then I came back to Oregon. My sister, Teresa, we went hiking in Arizona for two weeks. It was fabulous fun. Had met my other sister, Kelly, at the Tucson rocket gym show and then met Teresa for hiking, then came back to Oregon. And that was about the time that the last person stopped talking to me. Then there was that hill I had to climb. It was like, Jesus Christ, what the fuck? And so I was just kind of frozen emotionally and mentally.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:19:55

All I could do was cry. All I could do was cry and be upset. And I was having some really dark thoughts. I'm for those of you who are out there, it happens. And the best thing we can do is just talk to people and know that that's not the end. Finally, a friend of mine, a dear friend of mine in about June said, girl, you gotta finish that book. I mean, it was like a real simple statement. And that was what I needed, Kim, to sort of snap me out of it.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:20:22

We all need friends like that.

Kim [: 00:20:25

I agree with you, especially with the complex traumas that we have endured. Like you said, someday, like you're not just supposed to feel better. All of a sudden I feel like if it's a lifelong tour.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:20:37

Yeah. And it is. And so the more things went on, the more I realized that we break in our stronger places as a social worker, I came to understand that as a lifelong advocate, I came to understand that I am encouraging all the listeners, stop telling women you're the strongest person I know, because what that saying says is I need you to be strong. So don't show me any weakness. Don't show me despair or sadness. You just keep being the strong person. I expect you to be, because you have to do that for me. And I, I hate that.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:21:08

I hate it when people say that to people, because it is an unfair burden that we place on people. When we say that to them, I had just been struggling and struggling and struggling. And when my friend, Clarisse said that to me, it was like, yeah, I do need to finish writing that this book I dug in and I finished the book. And so the book is my memoir, but it's also a validation for women who are survivors, interpersonal trauma, because so often as survivors, we think it's just us. We think we're out there alone. That those, all of those emotions and those feelings and that crap is just us. And women are always happy to say, to call themselves failure. I'm a bad mom.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:21:50

I'm a bad sister. I'm a bad daughter. I'm a bad employee. I suck. I'm a failure at therapy. Like we're happy to put all this shit on ourselves. Right? I started thinking about all of that as I continued to write the book. And I was like, yeah.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:22:04

So in the book, I also talked to, I talked about all the different therapy modalities. I talk about what is domestic violence? What is sexual assault? What are the laws? Like I talk about the fact that the United States army in the early two thousands started issuing waivers to sex offenders for fuck's sake to sex offenders, as if we didn't have enough problems in The United States or with people being raped. Now we're going to invite sex offenders to come in. And when I found that out, I was so angry because I was like, you have been feeding women and men to sex offenders for years. Yeah. All for your mission. They don't care about the Wattenberg Amendment that says they're not supposed to. They don't care about any of that.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:22:43

As long as their mission is being managed, that's all they care about. And so there were moments when I was writing this book, it it took an emotional toll. It really did. Because I had to revisit my trauma. I had to write it in a way that was respectful to the thousands of women that I've worked with over the decades, not tell their stories, but mention a woman that, like, I interacted, but, like, she had with the most brutal, but without a way that would trigger other survivors. So it's really just a a lot of everything. When you think about being broken in the stronger places, it's really just a nice phrase for retraumatization. And that retraumatization is something that we just don't discuss enough as social workers, as psychologists, as medical providers in the medical field and mental health.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:23:27

We don't talk about retraumatization and we don't prepare survivors for that. When we, when they're going through all of the counseling and everything, we don't say, oh, and by the way, down the road, this might happen to you. Be prepared for that. We feel these things and we think, God, I did the therapy and obviously I did it wrong because now I'm doing the same thing. Is there something wrong with me? But really everybody who's listening, retraumatization is real and it's impactful and it's painful and it can cause people to have really dark thoughts. So when I was thinking about the title, I wanted a secondary title and, and resilience. You hear a lot about resilience. When you hear about trauma, it's like the resilience that gets us through resilience is what keeps us going.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:24:10

But what you don't hear about is resourcefulness. And my friend Clarisse, the one who finished writing the book, we were talking and she said, girl, resourcefulness is what got you in the van and got you on the road for 20,000 miles and got you through when Beyonce did. It was resourcefulness because you knew what you had to do to take care of you. And so I thought, I was like, oh my God. So I talk in the book about resilience versus resourcefulness and the value of resourcefulness and know what you can do, know what your resources are. Is it going over to your best friend, Justin, night of you saying anything while you drink wine? Is it you going on a trip? What you are the only one who's qualified to tell you what your own resources are and to enact that resourcefulness. And it's that enactment of that resourcefulness that's going to save us.

Kim [: 00:25:00

That is so powerful. We all have it within us. We just need support. And I think that's why it's so important to, like, interweave a community of military women who have been subjected to similar circumstances, because then, oh my gosh, all of a sudden you're seen and heard and valued and you're like, woah. And that's foreign to a lot of us. So then learning to accept those feelings. You're like, wait. I am worthy.

Kim [: 00:25:31

I am. Yeah. Yeah. I am valuable to society. I make a difference. Talk about that. How do you learn to accept those feelings that are have been so foreign to you for so long?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:25:45

Well, when I learn, I'll let you know. I think it's a constant learning process. It's something that we just have to like, I continue, you know, I was thinking about it the other day when I was driving back from Portland. I was thinking, you know, since 2021, I have been continually in the state of trauma, trying to get better and trying not to let all of the things like all of the trauma triggers, trying to recognize them when they come and deal with that. And self talk out of that and acknowledge that it's, I'm not a bad person. It's not me. It's okay to have broken spots. It's okay to have weaknesses.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:26:27

You don't always have to be the strongest person in the room, no matter what people tell you, It's okay to have to be human for goodness sake.

Kim [: 00:26:37

Yeah. And Liz, I'm interested. What else do you do besides, like, for release? So they're, like, years of suppressed trauma, which, like, we were talking about and then manifest in physical ailments. But so that primal screen, like, what other things do you do to release that trauma that's been in there and gets retriggered?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:26:58

I write, you know, I kayak. Kayaking is my happy place. It's funny. When I was living in Virginia, I joined some kayaking groups. Now I'm from Oregon where we don't kayak like we're in a race. We're just like paddling and having a good time, recreational. The people on the East Coast paddle like they're all in a race. We really do.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:27:19

Yes. Yeah. And so I would go on these on these day paddling trips with these women, and so they would just be like hardcore paddling. And I have spent a lifetime every single day is a race. Every single day is me doing something to faster, harder, quicker, better. I don't need that when I'm kayaking. And so I got to where I would just like one time I, I fell behind. Cause I was looking at, it's a beautiful, when you're kayaking, there's birds and animals, and there are things, and you can, you could see things from the water you can't see from the road.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:27:53

And so I would like when I just slowed down and I was and this woman comes back and she's like, are you okay? Yeah. So, like, what's but you're way back here. I said, yeah. I'm not in a race. You won't go ahead. I'm gonna stay back here and enjoy my day because I'm done with that race paddling action. And she said, I'll stay with you. I said, you don't have to.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:28:12

And so I stopped going with these groups of women because it just became I was like, oh my god. But it's like they were looking at their watch phone. We gotta go. We gotta go. We gotta we're out here. This is supposed to be relaxing. We're not racing. And so a lot of my kayaking, I do with only one other person.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:28:30

Like, I have a friend in Washington that I kayak with, and she's like me. She just, like, kicks it, you know, slow paddling, having a good day, and my sister. But other than that, I have friends that I stay in. Mostly my sisters, my sister Teresa and my sister Kelly that I stay in touch with every day, every single day, it's a struggle. Some days it's less struggle than others, but I have to self talk every day. And especially when something happens with somebody in my family member, I have to say that's not my circus. It's not my monkeys. I I'm part of it because I'm related, but they don't want me as part of their in part of in their lives the way I am and who I am.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:29:10

I spent so many years being what they wanted me to be or needed me to be that at 66, I'm no longer willing. The upside is I used to have these deep elevens right here, but and I was looking at the mirror there. It was like, because I spent so many years doing the forehead wrinkle thing and it's, they've gotten better because I'm not letting myself be stressed out like that anymore. You know, I try to do some meditation and there's times and I've got a sleep disorder. So there's times I don't sleep or I only sleep a couple of hours because I will lay myself in bed and beat myself up and think of all the horrible things because I have a vivid imagination.

Kim [: 00:29:51

Yeah.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:29:52

And so I have to get up in the morning and say, don't let that happen again. And if it starts at night, I have to say, don't go there. You can't do anything about it. There's nothing you can do to change it. So just don't think about other things. I do different games and I write and I fuss around my house and do things. And I hike. I love hiking with my sister and my friends.

Kim [: 00:30:16

And I love that you do all that. I love that you take time now because we were given all these senses to see and hear and smell, but most of us are in a hurry. And when you really do take time to look at birds and listen to them, it's a really beautiful soothing sound that really is like a free therapy. Looking at the beautiful skies, I I always talk about that. And then it, like, releases that cascade, that beautiful hormonal cascade versus the negative cascade of cortisols and oxytocin. And now you're doing the endorphins and I like using that, but I think we often forget that or not even taught that because if everyone's we're just in a hurry And there it's so much beauty. And the smells. Oh my gosh.

Kim [: 00:31:06

Yes. It's so beautiful. So I'm really happy that you did that during your kayaking trip.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:31:11

Thank you. So I think that, you know, what we have to think about is things like what can be the tool. What are the tools that we can use? So, like, I discovered a tool called Shai, and it's got all kinds of different, like, white noise sounds. And they have one that's, like, camping, one that's the ocean, and they have the birds and the bees and the sound. So I use that a lot because it helps me because when I was in my van, laying in my van, listening to the sounds of nature for the first time, really that where I just listened, I just laid there and listened to the sounds. And that was part of what helped me heal. And I miss being in my van. I miss that camping.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:31:51

And so I got another one that I'm gonna use for my book tour, but laying in bed, listening to those sounds, it's just discovering shut eye. I found was a tool, a resource that I could use to help me when I'm having trouble sleeping, when I'm feeling awful, when whatever. That's what I do. So the book tour starts, I believe, by people or even March 23.

Kim [: 00:32:14

Is March 30, correct, to April?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:32:19

To May 30.

Kim [: 00:32:21

May thirtieth. Okay. Talk about that. Where are we going? Do you have it set up so, like, we could follow you?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:32:28

Yeah. So I'm gonna have my webmaster put a link on my web page so people can see. But right now, it's kind of a loop. So I'm gonna start I'm going I 80. So I'll be going through Indianapolis and then to Boston, then to New Jersey, then New York and DC, and then I've got it's not all filled in yet. But so if any of the listeners want me to come, let me know because I I'm adding two stops. So my, my idea go ahead.

Kim [: 00:32:57

For the listeners, you said if any of them want you so, like, to bookstores or can it be anywhere that you put on a yeah.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:33:05

Anywhere.

Kim [: 00:33:06

Like my friend at their home?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:33:07

No. Probably not. Oh, okay. But, like, my friend in Indianapolis, I'm gonna be at the Kurt Vonnegut Museum and Library in Indianapolis. And then just different like, wherever it could be a bookstore. When I do the one here, it's gonna be the bookstore is too small when I do the one here in Baker City. So it's going to be it's called Church Hill School. It's like an art center.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:33:30

And so different it could be anywhere that they want me to be, and it doesn't have to be just women veterans. Like, some people have gotten into the mindset, like, it's for women veterans. No. It's for all women who've experienced interpersonal violence. And actually it would benefit anyone. Again, I don't talk about men because my career has always just been women. One person said, well, you know, you're gonna have to make it gender neutral. And I said, absolutely not.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:33:54

Absolutely not. I am not being sexist from Sandra's when I don't talk about men. I'm talking about the sum of my experience personally and professionally.

Kim [: 00:34:04

Yes. And you're a woman. You understand we do have different structures of our brain. So, yes, I appreciate you saying that because there's a lot of people, you're right, that who are like, oh, and so why aren't you why aren't you concerned with men? I'm like, oh, I am. I am. However, I'm a woman, and I spent my whole fifty some years learn living in a woman's body and my mind and being subjected to being a woman. So that's all I know. So why would I go and teach men when I can't relate to them? And there's a lot of resources out there for them who can relate to them.

Kim [: 00:34:41

So, yes, I appreciate you saying that. I'm a

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:34:44

I think men need to be in the room. I'm okay with teaching men. I just I'm not gonna talk about it through that male lens because I'm not qualified to speak about it through the male lens because I'm a woman who is only ever helped women. The book really is for anybody. The book readings and the signings are for anybody. At the end of the book, I put in some helpful guides, like how to build a trauma informed workplace, what is trauma informed care, how to build a trauma informed workplace, how to build a safe workplace. Like, I put in some things. It's got a glossary.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:35:14

It's you know, I did it's all got a a page and a half of references and resources plus some footnotes. It's kind of a self help, but it's also my memoir, and it's for people who, if you're a nurse or a doctor reading this or somebody who's in a social services, you can benefit because it'll help you understand. Like, I was watching there's a new show called The Pit. It's a medical show that is like an ER type. It shows this guy wrote a I wrote this blog. This guy had is on the autistic spectrum on the autism spectrum. He's hurt his ankle, and the doctor is getting frustrated because the guy is focused on, you know, he's the first thing he says is the doctor says, tell me what's going on. I everted it.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:35:56

Well, so the doctor's immediately, like, I Google doctor. And so he goes out. He's frustrated. The young man is not getting anywhere because the doctor's not listening to him. And he goes out and he's talking to this woman, and she says she says, do you mind if I look at his chart? And it turns out her sister's on the autism spectrum as well. And so she looked at the chart. She says, oh, he's autistic. Did you know? And the doctor said, well, that has nothing to do with his broken ankle.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:36:20

And I'm from my couch yelled, yes, it does. It does. It does. It does. It's me.

Kim [: 00:36:26

And the body got suppressed from off.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:36:31

So he goes in, she turns down the lights. She says, hi, my name is doctor. I'm going to be helping you. And she shuts the doors because of all the sounds coming in and that, and she says, tell me what concerns you about your pain today. He says, I averted it. And she said, oh, okay. And instead of getting her back up about that, she says, oh, okay. And I think he said that before she said, I tell me what so he tells her, like, all this stuff, and he says, I'm afraid I'm not going to be able to be in this tournament.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:37:01

And she goes, oh, wow. Okay. Well, let's see if we can help you make that tournament. In my blog, I was taught the article. I was like, it does. We have to stop thinking everybody, people in department of human services and in emergency rooms and in everywhere, they need to stop thinking that mental health conditions or behavioral health conditions or intellectual conditions are separate from the human body because they most certainly are not.

Kim [: 00:37:29

Have you I'm sure you, have heard the psychoneuro immunology. I've been studying that as well. And I'm just like, my goodness, it really is. Now granted, there are a lot of things that happen. Right? Just But I do believe a lot of the trapped trauma is really again, because in being an ER nurse and doing mental health nursing as well, you do. You kind of like see I talk about it a lot in the podcast. Like people come in with all these physical ailments and you do all the testing and everything's negative when you talk about their emotional state. And you're like, oh, there it is.

Kim [: 00:38:09

And that's just a little you're unpacking. There's a lot more. There's a lot more layers going on. But I am so excited about your book. I am so excited about your tour. I am going to link you up with a whole bunch of other women that were on here and see well, I'm sure they're gonna wanna host you. And if they do, what does that look like? So you said they can host really anywhere. And how long how long do you will you be staying in each area?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:38:39

It depends. Like, I will just because I have to be in Boston on April 3. My event in Indianapolis is the thirtieth. I gotta leave. I gotta blow out of Indianapolis on the first so I can get to Boston. So it just depends, like, if I have a lot of stuff going on, you know, in an area, like, I'll probably have two or three things, but then I have to be in New Jersey on the seventh. And so it just part of it is just, like, what's on the schedule? How quickly is the other one scheduled near this one that like, for Atlanta, I might have that call tomorrow, and they said, are you gonna be able to drive outside of Atlanta? Like, what can we have a number of them? Yeah. We can.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:39:18

So we can do more than one event. Conferences, seminars, trainings, like, I could come and speak at those or just do a book signing. Like a friend of mine, Margie I don't know. Do you know Margie Witt? She's here in Oregon. She wrote a book called Tell, and she helped undo Don't Ask, Don't Tell because of her suit. She lives in Portland. You should have her on your on your podcast.

Kim [: 00:39:40

Love to have her. You look me with her. Yes.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:39:42

I will. It's an amazing story. Like I said, because of her suit against the air force, her suit led to the dismantling of Donuts Don't Tell. And so one year we had her, she came to the Oregon Women Veterans Conference, and she spoke and then she did book signings like the whole next two days. So it can really be anything. It can be a book club of 10 women who want me to come in and speak. So you said it people comes maybe, but tell them they you know, and then tell the listeners, don't make the decision for me. Like, don't just assume I'll say no.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:40:14

Ask me. Yes. And I will figure out how to make it work.

Kim [: 00:40:19

Okay. And then when does it release? So broken in the stronger places from resilience to resourcefulness that will launch? March 18. March eighteenth is a release date.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:40:32

Yes. Okay. It is. And so it's right now, it's just now in the formatting phase, which is the final step.

Kim [: 00:40:39

What does it look like, the big release date? What does March 18 look like?

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:40:44

It's gonna come in without any fanfare or anything because I've got a whole bunch of appointments that I'm involved with the VA from now until, like, I've got two cataract surgeries. I've got some periodontal like, I've got a bunch of stuff.

Kim [: 00:40:55

Okay.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:40:55

So really, it's been, like, okay. My book got released. And I'll probably do something, like, on my Facebook page and on my website, some, like, e high, it's happening sort of thing. I'll make sure that the link to purchase is out there. It's gonna be available on Amazon and IngramSpark and Book, Bronson, Noble, all of these places that people want it to be. I'm not doing a hardcover because those are really expensive, and not many people buy them anymore. So So it's gonna start with the paperback, and then I'll do the ebook and the audiobook. Oh, god.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:41:26

Okay. This is great. And you're going in your van. I am. I'm so excited. I bought it on a van. I'm so excited. I'm gonna be traveling on my book tour.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:41:34

And I bought some things to put on the side of the van, you know, and it says broken in the stronger places book tour. I will have a few books with me in the van. Mostly, I'm gonna ship them ahead to the locations.

Kim [: 00:41:45

Well, Dakota and I would love to send you off with a care package. So what is some of the things we can send you with, like food wise or any of the other listeners? My goodness. I we will leave your contact information. And if anybody wants to give, like, a care package, so so you can have whatever you want. Whatever you want, let us know, and we will send you.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:42:08

I will. That's an unexpected question. I'll have to think about it. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. But now it's all self funded. I decided not to do the publishing route because publishing houses keep about 96%.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:42:20

When I found out, I was like, oh, hell no. So I funded my own publishing and the book tour I'm funding. Like, one person said, are you gonna be doing any, like, snacks or sheets? I was like, no. I don't have that in my budget. Well, my gosh.

Kim [: 00:42:35

Okay. Well, Margie. Okay. It's coming quick. Yeah. Do me a favor. Write down stuff that about you would be interested in having with you, and then we will blast that out. And other women can help support this because that's what we wanna do.

Kim [: 00:42:50

We wanna support your journey. I mean, this doesn't come without a lot of hardships and release and actually, you know, rediscovery, which is really beautiful. And I'm really excited for you to go on this book tour. I think you're I don't wanna say strong. I wanna say you're super brave for doing this. And so, yes, let's get a list together. We'll blast this out, and we will we will send you full of, like, a van full of good juju along the way.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:43:21

I will take the good juju. And I just wanna I wanna say that there will be a second book tour for the places I'm not that are not on this first one. There will be a second book tour from August to September. And that'll be of Northern states and the center of The United States, like Okay. Kansas, Oklahoma, Colorado.

Kim [: 00:43:40

Wonderful. Well, thank you again, Liz, for being on Dog Kite Diaries. We appreciate you all your time and your energy and your love. Thank you.

Elizabeth Estabrooks [: 00:43:49

Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. And thank you to you and Dakota and all the other women for all the phenomenal things that you're doing for women. It matters. Thank you. Welcome.

Kim [: 00:44:02

Thank you for joining us on this episode of Dog Tag Diaries, where military women speak their truth and share their true stories. Every story told here is a step towards understanding, healing, and connection. Share this episode with someone who needs to hear it. And remember, your voice matters. Together, we're building a community that empowers, uplifts, and inspires. Stay connected with us. Follow Dog Tag Diaries. Leave a review.

Kim [: 00:44:34

And let's continue to amplify the voices of women warriors around the world. Your voice matters. Share your thoughts and reviews to help us grow, improve, and continue making an impact. Until next time, stay strong, stay true, and keep sharing your story.