Empowering Safety and Healing: A Journey Through Advocacy and Mental Health -6

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Dakota [: 00:00:04

Imagine growing up as the daughter of a gunsmith, surviving a suicide attempt as a young woman, and later becoming a mental health care professional dedicated to firearm safety and veteran support.

Kim [: 00:00:16

In this episode of Dog Tag Diaries, we unravel the incredible journey of a woman whose life story is a testament to resilience, advocacy, and unwavering dedication to making a difference.

Dakota [: 00:00:29

Don't miss this powerful episode that bridges the gap between personal struggles and community triumph.

Kim [: 00:00:38

Welcome to Dog Tag Diaries, where military women share true stories. We are your hosts, Captain Kim.

Dakota [: 00:00:45

And Captain Dakota. The stories you are about to hear are powerful. We appreciate that you have joined us and are eager to learn more about these experiences and connect with the military women who are willing to share their stories in order to foster community and understanding.

Kim [: 00:01:03

Military women are providing valuable insight into their experiences, struggles, and triumphs. By speaking their truth, they contribute to a deeper understanding of the challenges they face and the resilience they demonstrate.

Dakota [: 00:01:16

We appreciate your decision to join us today to gain insights and knowledge from the experiences of these courageous military women. Thank you for being here.

Kim [: 00:01:33

Today's guest is Donna Marie Drucker. She's a cofounder and executive director of the Oregon Firearms Safety Coalition. Additionally, Donna Marie works in suicide prevention, crisis intervention with a focus on preventing suicide in rural and veteran connected communities. Donna Marie, Dakota and I are so honored to have you on our podcast.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:01:57

Thank you so much. I'm delighted to be here with the both of you today.

Kim [: 00:02:01

We love to start about your upbringing, and a very interesting one, so please fill us in.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:02:09

So I was born in rural England, like, as rural as you get. It's called the East Midlands. I grew up in this tiny village called Scredington, which is actually in the Magna Carta. It's so old. It was there before the Romans came. So 1,000 and 1,000 of years old and as rural as you get. We joke that people don't know it because people drive through it to get to other places. It's not a destination spot, but it it was a nice place to grow up in.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:02:42

I went to the village school. There were 30 students in the entire school. So really very different than the education that my children are getting. And my father was a gunsmith. So I grew up surrounded by firearms, and he was also a military antiques dealer and collector. I say dealer, but really that was his way to collect more items himself. So my house was full of mannequins with uniforms and, with swords and bayonets and spikes. And for me, it was very normal, but apparently, I as I grew up, I learned that not everybody lives in a museum with the smell of mothballs and just all those folks just lining up the house.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:03:28

But for me, it was normal, and I loved it. I spent a lot of my childhood in antique shops or in workshops where my father would be working on his guns. Shotgun shells were my favorite toys. They were different colors for the different bores or gauges, as you would say, so you could build all sorts of cool things with those. And and, again, it was not necessarily the normal childhood, but for me, it was pretty

Kim [: 00:03:52

special. Yeah. That's what you grew up in. I bet you saw all sorts of weapons.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:03:57

Everything from guanda busts to, hand grenades to cannonballs. You name it. I slept next to it.

Kim [: 00:04:05

A little bit different than picking up Barbie dolls or something like that and playing with them.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:04:10

I will say and my father raised me by himself, so I really was just influenced by that world. But he also and stuff as well. So I have Cindy and Barbie dolls and a bolt action rifle next to the bed, so all good.

Kim [: 00:04:34

Barbie playing GI Jane. Definitely. How do you feel like that background influenced your view on firearms?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:04:44

So I love guns. I'm not gonna lie. I am a member of multiple gun clubs here in Oregon. I love being at the range. I don't get to shoot as often as I would like to because I spend a lot of time doing all of this other work, but there is nothing more thrilling than hitting your target, having a tight cluster, and just in my life, my firearm stuff, which is just about me. It's not about my family. It's not about supporting the community, my gun ownership, and I I'm a member of a Girl in a Gun in Sherwood. All of that sisterhood type of thing is something that is just mine.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:05:22

So that is very special. But how it influenced me today is that I believe that people do have the right to own firearms, and it's a right that I think should be protected. In England, we had significant law changes, and I saw the impact of that on our community around who and who could not own firearms. So I come at it from a British perspective. We were always used to having to register firearms and and all of that. But here, I think firearm ownership is a part of culture, and it's something that needs to be respected. Respectful around firearm ownership and find solutions within that area of respect. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:06:15

Just like we didn't get rid of cars because people had multiple fatalities on the road, we found that middle ground solutions, and I'm all about that.

Kim [: 00:06:25

So personal experiences and challenges that you faced growing up?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:06:31

Growing up in a rural area, there were not a lot of options. My family had struggles. As I mentioned, my father raised me alone, so there was interpersonal relationship struggles with my mother. My sisters lived with grandparents and parents. Everybody was kind of split up. My brother had experienced addiction issues, and because of that, had some legal issues that went along with that to support his addiction. And I had my own personal struggles. I really wanted to, get out of the town.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:07:04

I didn't really fit in. I didn't really fit in with my family. And I love my family, but I often wondered where they found me. You know, it's just like it was just like, does not everybody see this world the way I see it? Should we not all be trying to get out of here? And with that, with a lot of my personal struggles, I had early difficulties with addiction, with alcohol when I was young, trying to mask that pain. And then when I was around 19 years old, my pain became pretty significant. I was at university. It was my 1st year at university, and it was the first time that I was with people that didn't grow up in the same kind of background that I did. People that had came from very secure family units, people that weren't struggling with addiction, people that probably had healthier ways of functioning in the life and had, more financial security.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:07:59

I didn't realize we were poor, but when I got to university, I realized that people were living a very different life than I had been living. And with that, I definitely had a lot of struggles. It was hard to fit in. I had to work a full time job while going to school. Not many people had to do that, so I was tired. I struggled with my grades. I got into some financial issues, like all the things that happen when you're literally a fish out of water trying to fit in and keep up with things that you weren't equipped emotionally or physically or financially to do. And with that, it did lead to a personal suicide attempt when I was 19.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:08:41

And I can tell you what this is the core why I do this work and why it's so important to me is that if I had found my father's handguns the night that I was trying to end my life, I would have died at the age of 19. It would have been over. And because they were locked away, and I will I will say they weren't locked away because my father knew I was having a hard time. They were locked away because the laws have changed in England, and my father wasn't willing to give up his handguns. So they were hidden from the police, not from me, but it worked out because it's time and distance, secure storage. Right? Not being able to have access in that moment meant that my means for suicide was less lethal because there's not much that even comes close to being as lethal as firearms. And I got a second chance, which was amazing.

Kim [: 00:09:29

Oh, gosh. And we're so happy you're here.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:09:32

Yeah. I'm grateful for every day that I'm alive. And it's not like it's all easy. You can catch me on a day where I'm questioning all of my life choices. I'm a normal human being, but I've never had a second attempt. And that's also really important information because so many people feel that, you know, you helped somebody today, they're just gonna try again tomorrow. Truth is, most people don't and myself included. I've never even gotten to that place where I wanted to end my life, let alone have a second attempt.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:10:03

So this work that we do, I believe that it's so important because you can enjoy gun ownership, and we can also acknowledge that sometimes not having access to a very lethal means can really be the difference between life and death. Now I did get this amazing second chance, which was sort of very empowering. There's you asked me my name before, you know, when we were emailing back and forth, and it's Donna Marie or DM. Before my attempt, my name was Donna and Marie was my last name. But that night, Donna died and Donna Marie was born. And I was born not having to be whatever everybody else thinks of me. I could be who I am, who I feel I am inside and live my life with my personal intention and purpose and meaning. And that's what I've been doing ever since, which led me to be like, I'm gonna become a fashion designer.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:10:56

I'm gonna go to New York. I'm just gonna get out of this town, whatever I've gotta do. And, my grandmother had taught me to knit, so I used that. I got a lot of messaging as a young human that I wasn't smart enough to do a lot of things. But art is not a right or wrong thing. So I I made a portfolio. I got into university. The first chance I got to get out of the country, I took it.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:11:23

I studied at the Fashion Institute of Technology, FIT, in New York, and that was where I met my husband Joe. Who had just left the military.

Kim [: 00:11:31

Oh, and let's talk about that, your military connection, because you yourself did not serve. However, you have a strong military connection. So let's talk about that. So your husband?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:11:46

Yeah. My husband, he just gotten out of the army and he was an uptight asshole when I first met him. Like, he was fresh out. Like, he was struggling to transition. Like, why aren't people doing what I tell them to do? Like, why you know, it's hard to become move from these systems where everybody knows what they're doing and they get the job done and everybody's cohesive to people being like, yeah. I don't feel like doing that. And he's like, what do you mean? Nobody cares how you feel. Just do it.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:12:14

So he was he was a little uptight when I first met him, but that changed over time. Over the years, he has somewhat mellowed out. And also, my many of my family members, served in the military themselves. First World War, Second World War, half of our men were lost to the wars. And my grandmother's house was actually bombed in the 2nd World War, so they lost everything. Wow. And my grandmother, we've not met, but I'm, like, 5 foot 1. I'm a small human.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:12:45

And my grandmother was also a small human, and she was with the volunteer fire brigade in London. So she lost her house completely, got all of the children into the bomb shelter, came out, took her children to safety, and then went out with her sister to help other people. And those were the stories, like, it doesn't matter. They can drop bombs on us, but we're gonna keep going. And that always stuck with me, that type of, like, just keep going. No matter what the world throws at you, if this is the right thing to do, this is what we're going to do.

Kim [: 00:13:17

You being a wife of a veteran, how it impacted your life and perspective on veterans' issues?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:13:26

I would love to say it's all about my husband, and I can definitely talk about him and and sleeping next to him for the past 30 years and how the children had to wake me up at night because he could still go from 0 to ready to go, like, in less than a second. That is all true. But my connections, connections, my deep connections in wanting to serve the veterans come from my experience on 911. So my husband and I were both in New York City on 9/11, and it was a very difficult day. I will say that I was not in the towers, thank the Lord, and that I made it home that night, and so did my husband. And I would say it was his military background meant that he got home that night because he was very close. He was like one block and he saw the planes coming and he got his entire floor out. He was just like, it's whatever's happening, we all have to leave now.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:14:20

Nobody ever reentered his building. It had to because it was so damaged. So he that was like a miracle. And, again, through his service, meant that he was smart enough and took charge and got everybody out. And for me, the experiences of the day, walking through rubble, the silence and yet noise, Like, it's a day that you can't quite describe. There were sirens that nobody was talking. Nobody was honking. And if you spent time in New York, but when when it goes

Kim [: 00:14:50

Oh, yes.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:14:51

Quiet, it was a very Eerie. Day. Yes. Yeah. So I was very pro war that night, to say the least. I got back on the subway the next day and went to work. We were not gonna let anybody defeat us in any way. We were gonna keep New York moving forward, but I wanted war.

Kim [: 00:15:09

That's your grandma and you.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:15:11

That's my grandma. Oh, yeah. If if there had been boots on the ground, a wooden spoon would have become a lethal weapon. Like, I would have been out there. That fight or flight, even when I'm talking about it, like, I'm not a freeze person. I'm a fight person. So I had all that fight in me. Right? And we went to war.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:15:29

Great. But I didn't go to war. A month later, Jason and I got married. A year later, we moved to suburbia in New York, started a family. My life just continued, and it was a good life. 2008, I have 3 children, a 3 year old, a 2 year old, and a newborn baby. So I'm not getting out of the house very often. And Jason bought me a laptop.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:15:53

He's like, you should connect with the world. I think I was talking about Dora and Diego too much like they were real humans. I know something was going on. Just like, here, have a laptop. Do do something. And I started to see 2008, we really started to see what the wall meant. It meant super long deployments. It meant TBIs.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:16:15

It meant PTSD. It meant families not being able to repair and breaking up. It meant a significant increase in suicide by our service members. Now, to be clear, these service members were making sure my children never experienced the day that I had experienced. I was beyond grateful. Like, doing things and I still don't know all the things that y'all people do. I get to sleep very comfortably in my bed at night because people are willing to go and do such things. And I could not stand the idea that veterans being in the same pain as I was when I decided to end my life, experiencing that pain after serving and keeping me safe, it was unacceptable.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:17:01

And I had just, like, that second chance moment after my own personal attempt, I had a big moment. It's just like I was holding my baby. It's just like I have to serve. I don't know how I'm going to serve, because, like, one of them is still attached to me. But I am going to serve. So, I decided that I had to start small. I started sending care boxes and letters to veterans overseas.

Kim [: 00:17:23

Oh.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:17:24

I'm sure I brought them to death, but I sent them good things. I sent them a lot of whatever they asked for.

Kim [: 00:17:29

Wouldn't it be interesting if Dakota got one of your care packages when she was over in Iraq?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:17:35

It would be amazing. I hope it would be. Because I sent as much as we could to make sure that all those folks were getting all the things that they needed and wanted and yeah. I did the tea cart at the VA, you know, just handing out donuts and coffee. I started, onto the military helpline, the veteran crisis line. Just as my children got older, started to do a little bit more. And then I was like, I'm gonna become an addiction counselor because I know a lot of our veterans are struggling with addiction. And I started on that path and I was like, no, I wanna become a behavioral health therapist.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:18:10

I wanna I wanna do more. So then eventually I started my master's program. And in that, during COVID is when I started the Oregon Firearm Safety Coalition and together with Veterans Northwest Oregon. So I've been serving since 2008 in any capacity that I could because I want to give back to those people that mean that we can squabble over nonsense. Right? Because when we were attacked, it was devastating. And we've never been attacked since because of all of you amazing veterans and service members. And the fact that data tells me that statistically, if my son serves in the military as his father did, he is 4 times more likely to die by suicide than he is any combat related event. And that is unacceptable.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:19:02

So we have to make changes. And anything that we can do to better that, to make it easier, we're gonna do. Night or day, we're gonna keep at it.

Kim [: 00:19:12

Whoo. I love your passion.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:19:14

Yes. Good. Yes. You do. It

Dakota [: 00:19:16

gives me chill.

Kim [: 00:19:19

Well, so being the cofounder and executive director of the Oregon Firearm Safety Coalition, and I know it's for everyone. However, because we're military women, and let's stick to that and talk about about that.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:19:36

So I started the Firearm Safety Coalition because I realized that nobody was working with gun owners. There was, like, firearm community over here, behavioral health, suicide prevention, public health over here. These folks were trying to develop strategies for these folks, but they weren't talking to them. And I don't know about you, but I couldn't see how that was ever going to work. So part of my job was, at the time, was to basically provide the Oregon Health Authority with information, strategies, ideas on what they could do to reduce firearm suicide in Oregon. So upon looking at other states, I realized that some people had firearm safety coalitions. Everybody was doing a bit different, but it became obvious that we needed to bring everybody to the table. So that was my big suggestion.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:20:27

I wrote you know, did a whole plan and then realized that nobody was going to do it because everybody was uncomfortable having these conversations with gun owners except for me because I was a gun owner. I enjoyed being at the clubs. I was somebody that had the veteran connection, and I had the behavioral health crisis intervention connection. So it was easy for me to say, hey, let's all get together.

Kim [: 00:20:53

And you have the history, the family history, growing up, the comfortability?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:20:58

Yes. All research says the same thing. When it comes to talking about firearms, you need a trusted messenger. And I'm not the bee's knees or anything like that. I'm not some firearm champion, this or that. But I had enough credibility that people were willing to talk to me and especially our military community because veterans have a higher than average rate of suicide to begin with. But in Oregon, it's significantly higher. I think the national average for 100,000 folks, for non veterans is 14.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:21:34

For veterans, it's 33. And in Oregon, it's 49.

Dakota [: 00:21:39

Wow. That is wild.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:21:41

So that's a huge difference. So obviously we had to, we had to address that. Over 70% of veteran, suicides involve firearms. Veterans have access to firearms. They know how to use firearms and not willing to ask for help. One of the things that I learned on the military helpline and the veterans crisis line was if I had a veteran, I was on the phone with them and I was like, what would you do for one of your brothers or sisters? Like, I would drive across the country right now to help them. I'm like, okay. Can we call that person and see if they can help you? No.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:22:16

I don't wanna be a burden. I'm like, come on, dude. Sounds familiar? Absolutely.

Kim [: 00:22:22

Can you give us a percentage of suicide by firearms with military women?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:22:28

So at this point, they're not separating it. So I can't give you that data. What I can tell you for women, and this is quite alarming, is that a non veteran woman, like I say, rate of suicide is about 14 per 100,000. Now, a woman or a human that identifies as a woman that has served in the military is a 166% more likely to die by suicide than a woman that has not served. Wow. So it is significant and the numbers are increasing because one of the things that happened during COVID is that a lot more people started to purchase firearms. And not against that, but people weren't also getting the training. It was a weird time.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:23:15

But women have increased gun ownership significantly. Significantly. In fact, in some places, they're outlying men when it comes to guns, But, again, you can see me smiling. I don't have a problem with that, but it does mean that we need to make sure that we're addressing women and and especially female veterans in a unique way. There used to be this saying, a girl won't use a gun because she doesn't wanna be found, like, looking like that. And my response is it's not the 19 thirties anymore. Like, women don't care. If they have access to a firearm and they're having a hard time, then we need to talk about it.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:23:53

And what I have found just with my work with the coalition and also in my personal experiences is how often women are not asked about firearms. I'm never asked about my guns from my behavioral health care provider, from my primary care provider, the times that I've been in the emergency room, you know, just for, you know, whatnot, dentist, like any health care touch point, I have never been asked about my guns. I've been asked about my husband's guns. Does my husband have guns because he was a veteran? And sometimes I will say, no, because he doesn't, because they're all mine. But I don't have to tell them that. I can just answer their question, No, he doesn't have guns. So then there's an assumption that there's no guns in the house.

Dakota [: 00:24:37

I'm really glad you're bringing that up because I'm with the VA and then a mental health counselor, and they talk about how women will do nonlethal means, like overdose on pills, things like that, but they don't talk about this increase in number of women who are using gun. So glad that you're bringing that up because we definitely need to be aware of it.

Kim [: 00:25:01

And as an ER nurse, I can vouch for it because we don't ask that.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:25:06

No. I never asked, and yet I have multiple firearms, and I'm at a high risk category because I have a previous attempt. Nobody asks. There's a lot of assumptions made about who is or who is not a gun owner, and we're losing lives because of it. Because gun owners are no longer, or even if they ever were, who knows, rural white males. Today, gun owners are people that, 90% of the time, have a firearm for self defense, which means they are women, they are black women, they're Spanish speaking women, they're every kind of woman, trans woman, or every kind of woman that exists has access to firearms. And we need to start approaching prevention with that in mind. So I don't know if you're aware of Moms Demand Action.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:25:58

They're often connected with being more stricter with gun laws and they have marches, sometimes moms demand action march. And my saying is that even if I was marching with a friend at a mom's demand action march and she told me that she was having a hard time with her boyfriend or at work, I might ask if I could hold her firearm. Because even if she looks at me with 3 heads and be like, look at where we are, of course, I don't have guns, I'm still gonna ask because she's just as likely that she does have guns or that somebody else in her home has firearms that she has access to. But a lot of liberal folks own guns and don't talk about it because they're concerned about the stigma of where they're supposed to stand on gun ownership, but it doesn't mean that that folks don't own guns. I would say in Oregon, guns are in at least 60% of all homes, maybe 65, 70% at this point. So everybody has access to a firearm. And until we normalize talking about it, people have cars. There's more guns than cars.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:27:01

I'll ask you what car you drive and not feel any discomfort. So I think I should be able to talk about guns in the same way.

Dakota [: 00:27:09

Yeah. Absolutely. I agree

Kim [: 00:27:11

with you, especially with military women who have a hard time reintegrating back into society. They have, like, higher social rejection, institutional betrayal, lower self compassion.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:27:25

Isolation. Yeah. And all that research is coming out and being seen that and, again, like, everything was focused on males for so long that nobody had thought about sort of tweezing out how the experience impacts female veterans. And I'm so glad that it is happening, that there's now research out there, that there's now data out there, and that it is coming to everybody's attention. I wish we'd done this 10 years ago. As I mentioned earlier, it hurts my heart that the data has to get bad enough that it suddenly becomes something everybody's interested in working with. Because, really, true prevention is upstream. It means nobody dies to begin with.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:28:07

So we shouldn't actually be getting to a place where we're seeing increase in numbers. We should get to a place where the numbers just go down, but that's not happening right now. And as I said, as long as women have access to firearms, which they do, which they're entitled to do, we're going to see when people are having a hard time, they're not gonna choose pills over their firearm. They're just not gonna do that because, again, it's not the 19 thirties. Nobody cares what it's gonna look like because they're not gonna be alive. And when somebody's in crisis, they're not actually worried about what their makeup looks like or what their nails look like. They're in pain, and they just want that thing to end. So a lot of the work that we do with the Oregon Fire and Safety Coalition is working directly with veterans, working with female veterans, and trying to target and provide very specialized support.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:29:02

A lot of our work, we've been supporting the Bell Brigade, which is the Hood to Coast team. So again, that camaraderie, that doing something physical, that togetherness, reducing social isolation is what we believe to be upstream prevention. And then we also sort of throw in, like, hey. Let's talk about your guns and here's some secure storage devices. So we wrap it all up without making it feel like it's just about guns or just about suicide prevention or just about being a female veteran. Because I think female veterans already carry that stigma of being a bit different, and we want to sort of remove that and just normalize that all folks have these kind of challenges. But because of their unique experiences, we need to address those challenges with unique solutions.

Kim [: 00:29:49

So how do you go about educating? Is it just education or do you actually have classes?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:29:55

We do both. We do it all. We have education, so we'll go anywhere. Anybody that will have us will show up and we'll talk to folks. We have all kinds of classes from firearm culture training for health care providers because we want those folks to feel more comfortable having those conversations, especially with women. We have veteran, firearm and suicide prevention training, which talks about, you know, hey. You've got guns. That's great.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:30:24

Nobody wants to take them away from you. But as a community, this is what we do to protect each other because we lean into our values for our veteran community. And then we have some national suicide prevention trainings that we'll do at gun clubs and gun ranges. We always try to provide our trainings and education in places where veterans and gun owners feel comfortable. So we go where we're invited. So it could be the VFW, could be the American Legion, Alts Lodge, could be the gun club, gun range, law enforcement office, wherever it is, we try to make it so that people feel that they're in that space where they feel safe having these conversations. Nothing is political. 0 political stuff comes up.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:31:08

We just want people to feel relaxed and be open to learning. Because what we have found is that people don't know. People don't know that suicide is like the second leading cause of death for our kids. It's the 5th leading cause of death for people under 45 years old and younger, like, 5th leading cause of death. And I think it's the almost like the 8th or 9th leading cause of death overall in Oregon. It's consistently a top ten killer, but people don't know. They don't have the information, so they're not engaging in activities that can help save their lives, help save other people's lives, and normalizing that conversation.

Dakota [: 00:31:47

Where would someone go to get more information or to book a class, or where would they go for that?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:31:55

They can go to our website, offc.us. There is a contact email address there. Normally, what we do is if somebody wants a training, if somebody's interested, then we normally work with them and we'll bring a training to their community. All of our training is free. We work to get grants so that often, we'll provide pizza, secure storage devices, and the training. We normally end up finding the venue for free. We pull in all of our resources so that we can utilize everything that we have, everything that the county has, that the community has to bring these trainings for free.

Kim [: 00:32:33

Donna Marie, this is so interesting because Dakota and I were sitting out back talking about 2025 retreats because we do free retreats for military women. We find putting them in healthy communities or healthy environments just build this community, which is key. And Dakota said, we should do a firearm safety class along with a self defense and make it a week at one of the retreats that we do. So we would love to have you part of this. And I think it's so important just like you to have that knowledge of the firearms.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:33:10

Yes. And I wanna be clear. I'm not a firearms instructor. I do work with female firearm instructors. So if you wanted to really do, like, that firearm 101 training that I can help with, I'm more on, like, the secure storage suicide prevention. My skills are not quite up there. I probably could train the class at this point, but I'm not certified. And it is firearms, so we wanna keep that all above board.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:33:33

You 2 are the perfect folks, the perfect trusted messengers to deliver it to your female veterans when you're in your female retreats. Not that I'm not happy to come and support it. I totally am. But the more people we have trained to train, the more people get trained, and it makes a difference.

Dakota [: 00:33:50

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kim [: 00:33:51

You have so much other stuff that you do. You are part of Together with Veterans. Mhmm. You wanna talk a little bit about that as well?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:34:00

Yes. So it's just like how all connections are made, right? So when I was launching the Firearm Safety Coalition, I connected with the, Clatsop County veteran service officer. And I'm always trying to bring people on board, come and help with with what we're doing. And especially I especially wanted veterans to be a part of our work because so, so important. And he had just met with the person that was running together with Veterans National and was trying to this chap wanted to launch something in Oregon. I was like, great. Let's I'll meet with them. And together with veterans is a VA rural of veteran health funded program, and I'm probably saying that wrong, so I have to check on that.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:34:48

And it was a 3 year program that came with a lot of support. They have a whole book of it's very, VA Merrick, witchy type of thing, where they have step by steps on building a steering committee and building a team. And we already had a lot of that in place just because our coalition had a lot of veterans already. We had a board and a steering committee. But But it came with $100,000 worth of funding over 3 years. So I was like, yes, let's do this, and then this can be a part of the Firearm Safety Coalition, but it can be our arm that really focuses in on our veteran communities. We're just finishing up our 3rd year, so we probably launched this about 4 years ago because it took us, like, a year to get off the ground. We have an amazing veteran steering committee.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:35:36

I'm the only non veteran that is involved in the steering committee. And because of that, I don't vote and make sure that all the spending, all the ideas around supporting veterans and suicide prevention in our rural communities for our veterans is directed by our veteran community. Because, again, having people over here try to make decisions for people that they don't understand those lived experiences doesn't work. So we've done over the years, we've done some great work. We've done some peer support training, a huge peer support fan. Like, again, I believe that veteran to veteran support is pro essential. We've done a lot of suicide prevention training. We've gone all over the state with gun clubs and VFWs and American Legion providing training around firearms and suicide prevention.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:36:29

We've given out 100s and 100s of secure storage devices for firearms. But again, in a really respectful way, just knowing like, hey, this is something that can be really helpful. There's no nothing that we do is negative towards gun ownership. It's all very supportive towards the second amendment and respectful of the veteran lived experience, and then just trying to integrate both of them while having that focus on suicide prevention. 2 of our veterans, as you know, have just done a a documentary recently. They traveled around the state talking to other veterans, and we're really excited about that work because, again, just educating people. Only 1% of the country serves in the military. 1%.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:37:15

So when when a veteran leaves from that family, that unit where everything is supported in one way or another, comes out to this very diluted community, where practically nobody knows what it's like to have served, what it is like to have gone through basic or boot, what it's like to have been deployed. So I think the work that Brad and Sean are doing to sort of educate people on the struggles of those first few years of separation and transitioning into civilian life are really, really important. And then we try to fund anything that we think is going to be helpful for our veteran community. Yes. Like you guys.

Kim [: 00:37:57

And we wanna give a huge shout out to Together With Veterans because they they believed in what Dakota and I were doing with this podcast, Dog Tag Diaries. But we need funding, and it is to get women's stories out there and to have guests like you on, Donna Marie, that are so knowledgeable about the safety, the firearm safety. And so funding us, talk about that a little bit.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:38:23

As I mentioned, like, I have been seeing the writing on the wall for female veterans having a hard time for years. And again, people in the VA, Oregon Health Authority, all the people are doing hard work to save lives and to save veterans' lives. I always felt that women were lost in the shuffle, that we needed work that was specifically for female veterans, which meant male veterans shouldn't be running the show for that. We needed female veterans to be doing the work because, again, it's a very different experience. I won't share some of the stories that I've heard from other female veterans where I'm just like, oh my goodness. I can't believe that somebody a said that to you. You had to live through that. It's a different experience as a female, as a male, which means we need very tailored approaches to supporting our female veterans.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:39:15

So any opportunity that I hear about and I heard about you, like, I wanna say a couple of years ago with the retreat that you were doing. And I was like, I love it. Again, female veterans supporting other female veterans. That's the only way to do it. It's the only way to do it. That's how you make a difference. So when I heard that you were looking to do, your podcast again, We have a podcast, but it's 2 blokes that are doing it. 2 male veterans.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:39:41

They're awesome humans. I love it. And they try to interview female veterans with try. They do interview female veterans. They're not biased, but they're blokes. So, again, it's a very different perspective. So when I heard that you wanted to launch a podcast, and I knew that you were trying to get some funding and I was trying to be respectful and and trying to let things fall into place, but this has to be. Like, we need female veterans in this space, highlighting other female veterans, doing the work that you're doing.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:40:10

And it was absolutely a no brainer to fund you and continue to fund you if you need other things because this work, it's so important. So I'm so grateful. I'm grateful that the both of you are doing this work.

Kim [: 00:40:24

Well, we are so grateful for you. We appreciate all your efforts in helping us launch it. Because once it's just you have to start it. But if we didn't have you behind us, helping fund us and have such a passion. You have such a passion for everything. I'm telling you it's from your grandma.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:40:40

Let me tell you, I'm not this passionate about cooking dinners and stuff like that. I can tell you. It's not through everything. This is my jam, But, yeah. No. And I do. My grandmother's name was Olive, Olive Owen. And I think about especially when I'm struggling, I pull from the you know, like how She Ra used to have her sword or the Yes.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:40:57

Yeah. The cross bracelets.

Kim [: 00:40:59

We love that you are such a passionate advocate for our women veterans and we appreciate you coming on here and you could hear your passion through your stories. And we are here to help you as well. It's about unity. It's about us coming together. So we will get with you and we will definitely have a retreat

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:41:20

Yes.

Kim [: 00:41:20

With firearm safety and self defense.

Dakota [: 00:41:23

So as we come to a close, we usually ask what advice you'd give military women, but what, like, tips when handling firearms or thinking about suicide, what would you say to them?

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:41:36

So I would say 988. It's available 24/7. You can call that number for yourself, for a loved one. For veterans, it's 988 press 1. It is a number that will be answered, and it is a number that doesn't mean that the government suddenly knows all of your business. So don't be afraid to call 988. Additionally, I would say time and distance saves lives. Time and distance now, maybe it's from medication, maybe it's from car keys, maybe it's from alcohol, maybe it's sitting with somebody because they've talked about a high bridge, time and distance saves lives.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:42:15

And when it comes to firearms, it really, really saves lives. There's no second chances when it comes to an attempt with suicide and a firearm. And there's plenty of ways that you can create that time and distance. Oregon allows for friends to hold guns for other people if they're in a crisis. Put a cable lock on the gun, the gun owner holds the key, the friend holds the firearm and keeps it safe. Nobody needs to know. It's not reported anywhere, it's not listed anywhere, and when your friend's feeling better, you can return the firearm. It's a Good Samaritan Act.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:42:49

2nd way, disassembling firearms and giving non regulated components to anybody. You can give them to anybody. That means no serial number on that piece. So that can you can give it to a 12 year old. You can give it to somebody who's not legally allowed to own firearms. You can also rent a tiny storage unit and put those pieces in the storage unit because you just need time and distance. Crisis don't last forever. Tomorrow needs you.

Donna Marie Drucker [: 00:43:18

Hang in there. Reach out for help. There's so many people that wanna support you and help you get through this. And just please, please keep going. Please treat yourself as you would your brother or your sister. Every veteran I've spoken to would do anything for one of their brothers or sisters in crisis. Allow that friend the honor to help you.

Dakota [: 00:43:42

Thank you for that. That was very helpful and beautiful. Carrying up.

Kim [: 00:43:47

Well, thank you so much for taking time to be here with us. We appreciate you. Thank you for tuning in to Dog Tag Diaries. We appreciate your willingness to listen and engage with these stories as we understand the challenge that comes with sharing and hearing them. Your support in witnessing the experience of our military women is invaluable. These stories are meant to inspire and provide meaning, and we hope they can help you find your own voice as well.

Dakota [: 00:44:19

If you or anyone you know are in need of immediate help, call the crisis line by dialing 988, then press 1. There are resources available to help and provide guidance during difficult times. Please visit our website, www.reveilleandretreatproject.org to learn more about the Reveille and Retreat Project, including upcoming retreats for military women and resources. The link is in the show notes. We'll be here again next Wednesday. Keep finding the hope, the healing, and the power in community.